Arena Caps: Let the Market Decide

[The Fugitive]

I have only two points here,

First, the public has show time and time again that it has no idea what it wants. Just look at the wishes posted in those threads. Look at the wishes that have been granted and then complained about for months on end.

Second, we already know the results of your test. People will stay in the over populated arena creating a toxic arena causing subscriptions to stagnate. This is why the arenas were split in the first place. Why try it again?

[Lusche]

You didn't answer the first question.  

Funny, when the exact same mechanism was suggested to test the preference between a strat-enable and furball only WWI arena, you seemed to feel it was valid in that case.  How is this different?

Actually I didn't oppose your idea, did I? I was merely giving some arguments & food for thought.


besides, it's a totally different issue. It's not about overpopulation there. There will never be any chance for WWI to get that popular, no matter how you do the setup. No reason ever for any kind of population control. That's why

[CptTrips]

besides, it's a totally different issue. It's not about overpopulation there.

Thats an understatement. 

No, what I was refering to was the higher concept of placing two choices in front of a Market free to choose and letting market forces migrate to the choice of higher self interest.

Thats all I'm suggesting here.  I believe players, over time,  will migrate to where they are having the most fun, unless they are artificially constrained. 

To argue that players can't even figure out when they're having fun or not, is rediculous.  Players will migrate to where they are having the most fun.  Thats how HTC gained market share initially.  People tried it, had more fun, and migrated from one sim to another (only later did they gain share from closures).  Thats how they migrate from one field to another trying to maximize their "fun" profit.  Thats how they migrate from one arena to another.

Thats why AvA......nevermind.    (Just kidding!  Bad joke.)

,
Wab

[Karnak]

They won't be alone.  They'll get the capped arenas initially seeded then the "majority" of players who prefer capped arenas will hop on over.

,
Wab

They would be alone as most people would, complaints or not, stay in the arena where everybody else is.  The problem is that the "toxic environment" that HTC is talking about is not readily apparent to players.  It is like the frog floating in the pot of water that is slowly being brought to a boil.  The frog never notices anything is wrong.  If you just drop the frog into a pot that is already boiling, he'll feel it and try to get out.

The truth is that the customer is not always right.  This may be more true for games than any other product.

[guncrasher]

I'm not referring to the v-dweebs. They're not a cesspool, they're just a bunch of skill-less monkeys from what I've seen.

That's a hoard, which is rather different from a cesspool. No, I cannot define it for you, go through highschool first.

so you have no idea what Hitech means by cesspool, but you like repeating it.  I know what he means, he has explained it several times.  I dont agree with it, but then again its not my game.  I can only vote with my 15 bucks.

and my 30 year high school reunion is coming up soon.  maybe I'll go thru high school memory line if it makes you happy.

semp

[hitech]

 

Not going to happen. No use even describing why if you do not understand how invalid your arguments are.

HiTech

[CptTrips]

Not going to happen. No use even describing why if you do not understand how invalid your arguments are.

HiTech

Communist! 

Well, I've certainly learned a lot this thread.

Appearently all HTC customers are stupid cattle.  (Everyone is saying "Of course, well, except for me!"  )
They not only can't know what they want, but can't even know when they are having fun or not.
They certain shouldn't be trusted with any kind of choice.

In fact, I'm sorta concerned we're allowed to select our own fields and aircraft.  Do you think thats safe?

Wouldn't it be better for HTC to select our aircraft we fly and what field we launch from based on what they know is best for us?


,
Wab
 

[Denholm]

I think this is a case for Mr. Belial. He will change your mind.

[The Fugitive]

Communist! 

Well, I've certainly learned a lot this thread.

Appearently all HTC customers are stupid cattle.  (Everyone is saying "Of course, well, except for me!"  )
They not only can't know what they want, but can't even know when they are having fun or not.
They certain shouldn't be trusted with any kind of choice.

In fact, I'm sorta concerned we're allowed to select our own fields and aircraft.  Do you think thats safe?

Wouldn't it be better for HTC to select our aircraft we fly and what field we launch from based on what they know is best for us?


,
Wab
 

While I understand you are being sarcastic.....well I hope you are.....I think you may want to look at the subscribers we have these days. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that more than half the players playing these days are under 21. Those players have been brought up by the computer in online communities like WOW, Tibia, Ever Quest and any other game where you numbly go about whacking away on the other players to get your score.

A few years ago the the player base was tilted toward WWII buffs looking to "live" the fighter pilots roll, today its just a vehicle to get your score in. Most of todays players aren't mature enough to make a sound decision, that's why you don't see too many major company's run by 20 year olds. That's what your running into here. HTC must make the game attractive to as many people he can while not letting the game destroy itself from with in. A fine line to walk. 

[Karnak]

Wab,

It has nothing to do with people being stupid or not.  There are rational reasons to go into a packed LWA when you would enjoy MWA more.  Individuals cannot alter these things without collective planning, and AH is not set up for collective planning like that.

The other issue is that very few players have the training and knowledge to make informed decisions like you are suggesting and the consequences of lots of wrong decisions has serious repercussions for HTC.

[Lusche]

The other issue is that very few players have the training and knowledge to make informed decisions like you are suggesting and the consequences of lots of wrong decisions has serious repercussions for HTC.

My pet example is the collision modeling. I if we would run a poll on how to do it, I bet the majority of players (not BBS folks) would instantly vote for "both go down" instead the way it is now.
(Result: they would go boom with never seeing any collision at all and then scream "HTC has messed it up again!"  )

[RTHolmes]

The other issue is that very few players have the training and knowledge to make informed decisions like you are suggesting

sorry but thats rubbish, players are perfectly capable of deciding whether they prefer an arena with 500 or one with 50. they make that choice already (some of the latter group make up the EW/MW/AvA crowd.) they made that choice during the previous uncapped daytime dual LWAs. they made that choice for the ?6 weeks we had 2 fixed cap LWAs.


collision modelling is a bad analogy for this.

[CptTrips]

While I understand you are being sarcastic.....well I hope you are.....

Actually, quite often, I lose track myself.

,
Wab

[Karnak]

sorry but thats rubbish, players are perfectly capable of deciding whether they prefer an arena with 500 or one with 50. they make that choice already (some of the latter group make up the EW/MW/AvA crowd.) they made that choice during the previous uncapped daytime dual LWAs. they made that choice for the ?6 weeks we had 2 fixed cap LWAs.


collision modelling is a bad analogy for this.

You're wrong.  Players lack all the information needed to make that decision.  They may think they prefer a single arena and will make that choice without being aware they are also choosing HTC's decline and eventual closing because they don't see the new player retention rates.  Given that additional bit of data, most players would select the option that is good for the game.  The other problem is that many players cannot see past the end of their nose when making requests as to what they want.

[CptTrips]

You're wrong.  Players lack all the information needed to make that decision.  They may think they prefer a single arena and will make that choice without being aware they are also choosing HTC's decline and eventual closing because they don't see the new player retention rates.  Given that additional bit of data, most players would select the option that is good for the game.  The other problem is that many players cannot see past the end of their nose when making requests as to what they want.

If HTC felt they could increase subscriptions by choosing your aircraft (to ensure a wide and varied set of planes in the air), and by choosing the field you launch from (to ensure a proper distribution of players across the map to avoid hordes) would you be OK with that?

Would you be OK with only flying the plane from the field they they feel is in your best interest?

Would you be willing to surrender those choices if that got HTC more subscriptions?

Just curious.

Wab