Author Topic: Why the Hordes?  (Read 23287 times)

Offline SectorNine50

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #210 on: January 05, 2011, 03:44:22 PM »
No one is playing semantics, it's just that no one has any idea what your argument is exactly.
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Offline ink

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #211 on: January 05, 2011, 04:12:36 PM »
Mash, I used to think it took two to HO but that is not correct,  here me out...how many times have you been engaged and the nme cons keep trying to face shoot straight line no wavering just come in firing with no ACM?  I would say more then 80% of the engagements I have in the mains are exactly that, no matter how many cons are attacking me....so each one of those type 'style' (used very loosly) is a HO. So I have changed my thoughts on the matter, it does not take two to HO, just one clueless idiot......or a horde of em :-)

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #212 on: January 05, 2011, 04:20:21 PM »
Mash, I used to think it took two to HO but that is not correct,  here me out...how many times have you been engaged and the nme cons keep trying to face shoot straight line no wavering just come in firing with no ACM?  I would say more then 80% of the engagements I have in the mains are exactly that, no matter how many cons are attacking me....so each one of those type 'style' (used very loosly) is a HO. So I have changed my thoughts on the matter, it does not take two to HO, just one clueless idiot......or a horde of em :-)

I've seen you do your thing in a twisty plane from the other side, Ink.  Trying to bounce you it often results in a front-quarter shot because you're maneuvering so hard.  Between the time I've decided to commit to an attack pass until I get to you, you've often done at least one complete circle. <g>  I'm not surprised you get HOed a lot.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #213 on: January 05, 2011, 04:25:12 PM »
We are starting to get away from the topic here. Karaya's point was that as a player he doesn't want to HAVE TO spend his time porking. His time here is for fun, not to run down a laundry list of this to do BEFORE he can have fun.

The point of the OP was just to get opinions on hordes and why they occur. Bmwgs was very helpful to post and give us a ling to a gangbang complaints from a player who had just switched of to ACES from a "relaxed realizium" game AWIII  :rolleyes: While interesting to read the frustrations of someone trying to make the transition from that game to this one, it has nothing to do with hordes.

To me it looks like first of all "most" of you that commented stayed on topic and kept a cool head and for that I thank you all. Secondly hording seems to be more of a social act following the safety in numbers deal. I don't buy the "I just want to fly with friends crap" as when 40 guys are in a group you couldn't name 10 of them at any given moment. The hordes I think are contributing to the decline in player skill, why learn to play better when you have 30-40 of your closest friends to watch your back.

Can the hording be stopped? Well I would hope so, but I doubt it  :D Sure Hitech could put in zone limits to cut back the numbers of planes available, or maybe something that automatically increases the number of troops to capture a base that is tied to the number of attackers with-in the dar circle of the base being attacked. Maybe some other incentive to to get players to work at getting better. On the other hand, the community could work to try and cut back on the numbers of their forces. More communication between squads... "We'll hit this base, you guys hit that one!". Leaders actually LEAD a mission instead of "Unleashing das HORDE!" to flatten everything.

While in WoW it may be a good idea to team up with 30-40 of your closest friends to hit the "Big Boss" it doesn't work as well in this game because the "big boss" your trying to roll over are other players here just trying to have fun as well. I fear that if the hordes continue it could lead to more people quitting, or not signing up and were will that lead the game? Just something to think about.

Thanks again for a great discussion!   :aok

Offline SectorNine50

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #214 on: January 05, 2011, 04:41:05 PM »
The only way to get rid of hordes would be to remove missions (Since that's where most come from).

Removing missions would be removing a lot of organization.

Removing organization would remove teamwork.

I hate to say it guys... But hordes are a form teamwork, no matter how you cut it.  It just sucks when one team can get that many people together when the other cannot.  But like many have said, it's not impossible to defend or at least slow down.

One thing that I'm fairly confused by is the people who are worried about the hordes are the ones who say that base-taking doesn't matter, and that fighting is the point of the game.  So, why are they worried about the other team taking their bases because those other people like doing so?  I don't understand why people who don't care don't completely ignore the hordes and keep on fighting elsewhere.

The people who should be worried about hordes are the ones who want to win the war, however most of those people do something to counter the mass attacks, and they seem to have fun.  There is no reason to throw yourself into a horde if you are just going to come on the forum and complain about it (not to say that the OP is complaining, just a generality).

Those people are clearly having fun, and letting them ruin your fun is fruitless, and quite frankly a waste of your time.  This is a Massively Multiplayer Online game.  Things are massive with multiple people online doing the same thing.  Definition of a horde.  MMO is code for horde, and it happens in every single MMO.  The only difference: in other MMO's, people understand that it's how human nature works, and use tactics to counter it.

I'll take EVE Online as an example.  I've spent some time in this game, but recently stopped playing just because I simply got bored.  It became a bit of a grind and the same thing day in and day out, not worth my time.  Anyway, combat in that game is a similar concept as this one.  Sometimes you find 1v1's, sometimes you start a 1v1 and friends show up and "pick" you.  Sometimes you just happen to be a victim of a roaming "horde" of people patrolling low and null-sec.  At least in this game, you don't have to buy a new plane.  But I'll tell you what, if you are informed of a horde in a certain system, you sure as hell don't go headlong into it by yourself.  You go around, and if you have a big enough group, you form an attack from the rear.  Funny thing is, when you go on the EVE Online forums, if someone were to whine about a roaming horde, they would get laughed right out.  People know the risks of going certain places, hell we even have more warning systems to tell us about a horde coming than real life pilots did.

Basically what I am saying is, I don't think hordes are a sign of weakness, I think they are a show of human nature.  To change hording in game, you'd have to change people outside of it (and I think we've had a few years of evolution that's made us this way).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 04:50:13 PM by SectorNine50 »
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Offline USRanger

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #215 on: January 05, 2011, 05:00:43 PM »
Complaining that people play together (no matter how big or small the group) in an MMOG is absurd.  That will always be my opinion.  I personally like diving into a group of 20 bad guys and seeing how many I can take with me.  This is the only game I've ever seen where people complain/whine about this topic.
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Offline ink

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #216 on: January 05, 2011, 05:03:13 PM »
wiley~made me laugh, good discription. :-)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #217 on: January 05, 2011, 05:09:16 PM »
Complaining that people play together (no matter how big or small the group) in an MMOG is absurd.  That will always be my opinion.  I personally like diving into a group of 20 bad guys and seeing how many I can take with me.  This is the only game I've ever seen where people complain/whine about this topic.

Actually, you'll see the opposite side of the argument in other more traditional MMO games.  In most MMO games, it's the "hord" so to speak that bemoans the "casual" or "solo" player because these guys don't want to or don't have the time to group so they are always put down with comments like "why play solo in a multiplayer game!" or "there is no solo in multiplayer" and other inane comments.

But ultimately as pointed out by you and others, the "hord" has always been a part of these games and always will and nothing short of nerfing the game to oblivion is going to stop this practice.  You can search the old AW and Warbirds forums and I'm sure you'll find just as many threads about the "evil hord" as you do in the AH forums.

The hords didn't stop be from playing AW, WB and they won't keep me from playing AH.

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Offline Dadsguns

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #218 on: January 05, 2011, 05:27:48 PM »
You guys have spent way too much time thinking about this one when there is an easy conclusion to it all, its simple, its exactly what small fry do when the big scary sharks are around, they know they dont have a chance outside the bait ball so they do whats easiest and safe, stay in the comfort of the group and watch as their peers get picked off one by one and swear they sacrificed themself for the mishun and not due to lack of any skill or effort. 

Most will grow out of it over time, but the cycle continues as long as there is an excuse of not developing themselves to fly better than before, the path of least resistance prevails. 



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Offline SectorNine50

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #219 on: January 05, 2011, 05:42:45 PM »
Not a fair conclusion.  I fly alone, with my squad, and with missions.  Not because I'm afraid of your big mean cartoon airplane, but because it's flipping fun.  Actually, I'm going to horde all night tonight in Spit 16's just to watch tears stream down 200's cheeks.  Well... no probably not, I'd miss my Bravo too much.  This game is so much more fun when you play with others that are having fun, hopefully 40 or 50 of em.  On that note, see ya all in game. :salute
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Offline falcon23

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #220 on: January 05, 2011, 06:18:11 PM »
HUmans are gregarious,we get in the game when we can to have some fun together,to fly with people we know,we run missions we take bases,we fight..One cannot change human nature,even in a game..

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #221 on: January 05, 2011, 06:23:29 PM »

One thing that I'm fairly confused by is the people who are worried about the hordes are the ones who say that base-taking doesn't matter, and that fighting is the point of the game.  So, why are they worried about the other team taking their bases because those other people like doing so?  I don't understand why people who don't care don't completely ignore the hordes and keep on fighting elsewhere.


The reason "I" don't like hordes is I hate fighting 5 guys and have 3 more jump in on me. Look for another fight, not too likely, your either in a horde, or fighting a horde. Rarely do you find a small fight off to one side. When I do I have as much fun as possible and enjoy it as long as I can because I know it will disappear and then I will be spending my time looking for another little fight.

a question SectorNine50, how old are you and how long have you played this game? Just curious.


HUmans are gregarious,we get in the game when we can to have some fun together,to fly with people we know,we run missions we take bases,we fight..One cannot change human nature,even in a game..


All that is fine, and not at all what I'm talking about. I'm only talking about the hordes. Personally I just can"t see what is fun about being the 12th guy in on ammo, or fuel. That's why I ask, what is fun about it?

Offline SectorNine50

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #222 on: January 05, 2011, 06:29:39 PM »
I am 22 and have been playing for... 4 years almost exactly I think?  I started in early '07 sometime, I believe.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #223 on: January 05, 2011, 06:31:50 PM »
The only way to get rid of hordes would be to remove missions (Since that's where most come from).
I can't disagree more. IMO, most of the people you find in the center of such things log in, look at the map, and gravitate to the largest friendly blob like moths to a light, at which time they can circle a base with 15 like-minded types, (not having to worry about being a target) to mebbe shoot the guy who keeps upping in the LA7. NOT being in the middle of a huge group of people is a foreign concept to them, and one that prevents their skill-set from ever moving beyond ho'ing wounded, outnumbered planes, and complaining about the resultant 'rams'
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Why the Hordes?
« Reply #224 on: January 05, 2011, 06:48:27 PM »
I am 22 and have been playing for... 4 years almost exactly I think?  I started in early '07 sometime, I believe.

OK so your the same age as my youngest son. You were brought up in "video games". I bought my first video game about the time you were born (Legend of Zelda). Your out look on life differs a lot from mine. A lot of your background, sense of fair play, and just core personality was heavily influenced by video games. Whether you played them alot or not it was a major focus in your live. Kids at school talked about them, TV was flooded with commercials about them. When you did get to play I'm sure you were totally immersed in them....how many times did you tell your mother that you have to reach a "save spot" before you could shut it down?  :devil

Everyone will admit that a game world is very impersonal. The "hide behind the screen" phrase comes to mind. The interactions you had in the games allowed poor behavior, or poor sportsmanship/gamesmanship because there were no consequences. That's what I see happening with the hordes. People don't care about those they are trampling as long as THEY are having fun, after all it was no big deal squashing mushrooms in Mario, or hitting the old woman in the mountain with your sword in Zelda. So that younger generation that now makes up the majority of players (only guessing but I'd bet I'm right) is now enforcing there sense of game play into the arenas. This is why I don't think the hordes will go away.