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Author Topic: 109 nose cannon  (Read 33118 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 01:01:15 PM »
Thanks Charge, like to see the diagram sometime if you come across it. I have a larger scale version of Luche's cutaway where you can read the labels if anyone's interested.
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Offline Bino

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2011, 01:50:56 PM »
Quote
...As you can see the crankshaft rotates the propeller shaft which is hollow and runs through the entire engine...
I don't *think* the prop shaft runs all the way to the rear of the engine... why would it?  The only thing that needs to run more slowly than the engine crankshaft is the propeller... right?  From the photos and diagrams that I've seen - including these - I think that the reduction gear housing on the front of the engine and the prop shaft *are* hollow.  The gun barrel does not pass through the engine block, rather in between the two banks of the inverted V-12 and then through the reduction gear housing and the prop shaft.  The axis of the propeller is below the axis of the engine crankshaft.

I *think*...?
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Offline nrshida

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011, 02:00:46 PM »
 :rofl I went to the Doctor today to see why people keep ignoring me, and he said 'Next!'.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 05:29:32 PM »
Well if the blast tube didn't run in the V, then I would like those that think it didn't explain to me how the pistons and crankshaft were connected.
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Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 11:44:26 PM »
Quote from: Bino on January 04, 2011, 01:50:56 PM
I don't *think* the prop shaft runs all the way to the rear of the engine... why would it?  The only thing that needs to run more slowly than the engine crankshaft is the propeller... right?  From the photos and diagrams that I've seen - including these - I think that the reduction gear housing on the front of the engine and the prop shaft *are* hollow.  The gun barrel does not pass through the engine block, rather in between the two banks of the inverted V-12 and then through the reduction gear housing and the prop shaft.  The axis of the propeller is below the axis of the engine crankshaft.

I *think*...?


As the reduction gear has to be off-set from the crank shaft, and the barrel is center-line with the prop nose-cone, you have to be right, mechanically!  :salute :cheers:
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Offline Ruah

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2011, 12:18:16 AM »
ok, more pics to help (and because its a cool engine)



and this



the gear is in the front for sure.  its basically upside down. . . and the shaft runs between the V which is more an A.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 12:20:04 AM by Ruah »
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Offline Charge

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 02:29:15 AM »
Here is a nice picture how it was done in H.S.12Y (Klimov M100 and M105):



-C+
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Offline Bino

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2011, 01:58:10 PM »
Great images.  Thanks for posting!  :aok

Looks to me like the gears at the rear of these Daimler-Benz engines drove things like the supercharger and the intake/exhaust valves.  And with proper bevel gears and shafts!  No wimpy, weak chains for DB!

Even though the hub gun did not run through the engine block, it still must've gotten pretty toasty, snuggled up inside the apex of the engine's V.
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Offline trap78

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2011, 03:00:49 PM »
The DB series engine is an overhead cam design. However the engine block was still cast with a through hole where the camshaft for a conventional push rod set up would go. The cannon barrel went through this hole. The cannon could not be adjusted for elevation but fired straight ahead.
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Offline bustr

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2011, 03:25:17 PM »
trap78,

If you can provide documentation for the fact that the cannon could not be adjusted for elevation and then what that limited the real world impact point range to, HTC could coad that and eliminate the range adjustment in the hanger. Would be interesting to know how many hub mounted cannons in WW2 had no elevation adjustment due to the their relationship with the engine.

Or country specific data to what range their hub mounted cannon was set to.
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Offline IrishOne

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2011, 03:40:00 PM »
Quote from: trap78 on January 05, 2011, 03:00:49 PM
The DB series engine is an overhead cam design. However the engine block was still cast with a through hole where the camshaft for a conventional push rod set up would go. The cannon barrel went through this hole. The cannon could not be adjusted for elevation but fired straight ahead.

the engines were mounted inverted to allow passage of a gun barrel
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2011, 03:41:54 PM »
Quote from: bustr on January 05, 2011, 03:25:17 PM
trap78,

If you can provide documentation for the fact that the cannon could not be adjusted for elevation and then what that limited the real world impact point range to, HTC could coad that and eliminate the range adjustment in the hanger. Would be interesting to know how many hub mounted cannons in WW2 had no elevation adjustment due to the their relationship with the engine.

Or country specific data to what range their hub mounted cannon was set to.

wouldn't make a difference, almost all of the = 109 tator pilots, use the closest avail convergence, which I assume is the gun being level.
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Offline trap78

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2011, 06:14:21 PM »
I'll should still have the reference material on the DB engines around here somewhere. I'm not posting for a code change. But think about the amount of drop a 30mm or 20mm projectile has at 200 or 300 yards. It's going to take some significant elevation adjustment to compensate for that. If you've ever seen a 109 with the engine panels off everything is a very tight fit. How are you going to angle the barrel up that much without moving the propeller assembly?
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Offline Blooz

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2011, 06:27:41 PM »
Quote from: trap78 on January 05, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
I'll should still have the reference material on the DB engines around here somewhere. I'm not posting for a code change. But think about the amount of drop a 30mm or 20mm projectile has at 200 or 300 yards. It's going to take some significant elevation adjustment to compensate for that. If you've ever seen a 109 with the engine panels off everything is a very tight fit. How are you going to angle the barrel up that much without moving the propeller assembly?

The gunsight moves too.
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Offline trap78

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Re: 109 nose cannon
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2011, 09:07:43 PM »
Posted by Blooz:
Quote
The gunsight moves too.

Okay, this makes sense. You adjust your aim point as opposed to mechanically moving the barrel. Just like adjusting the scope on a hunting rifle right?
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