Author Topic: What is your fram rate?  (Read 13836 times)

Offline Edgar

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2011, 03:37:30 PM »
I was under the impression the human eye can only see 30 fps.

Probably even less than that. Modern movies run at 24 FPS and the human eyes and brain don't see the individual frames. The caveat to this is when you put a completely different slide or frame in (such as subliminal advertising). at the 24 FPS speed, you can tell that their is an odd slide in their and you may be able to recognize it at that speed. You would need to approach 100 FPS to not notice it was their (depending on the colors and the brightness). For something such as a video game or a movie, at 24-30 FPS, you should not notice any stuttering and the picture should be fluid.
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Offline BrownBaron

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2011, 05:04:47 PM »
Probably even less than that. Modern movies run at 24 FPS and the human eyes and brain don't see the individual frames. The caveat to this is when you put a completely different slide or frame in (such as subliminal advertising). at the 24 FPS speed, you can tell that their is an odd slide in their and you may be able to recognize it at that speed. You would need to approach 100 FPS to not notice it was their (depending on the colors and the brightness). For something such as a video game or a movie, at 24-30 FPS, you should not notice any stuttering and the picture should be fluid.

Modern movies and television have motion blurring built in to make the movement on screen appear fluid. Our beloved video game does no have this feature, and will appear jerky up to about 50fps. With my system usually getting 60fps solid, I can DEFINITELY notice the difference when it drops to 40, even.

Human eye=72fps, though a simple google search will give you answers ranging from 15 (and we can all agree that that figure is ludicrous) to 120.
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Offline USRanger

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2011, 06:01:00 PM »
How many processes you have running in the background will affect frame rates also.  Turn as many off as you can before playing.
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2011, 07:03:54 PM »
Yeah, I was aware secondhand of the stuttering and tearing stuff, I've just never been in position to see it and also wasn't sure if it applied to LCD's.  I assume it does?

Wiley.

I had two Nvidia 8800 GTS's SLI'd in my machine once for about a week.  At the time I couldn't enable vsync in SLI mode (I think they may have fixed that now).  I was getting 280-300 fps in game but the screen tearing was so bad I took the second card out and returned it.

I mispoke slightly in my earlier post.  When you get screen tearing the video card overwites the display buffer with the new frame bfore the screen has finished it's full refresh.  As a result you get multiple frames drawn on the screen in a single pass.  Here's a mild case of what it looks like.  Mine was much much worse:

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Offline Cynic

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2011, 08:09:09 PM »
What do you mean by "unlocked" ?

If you disable v-syncing, your frame rate will not be locked to the v-sync, your monitor's refresh rate, which is usually around 60 Hz.

Offline oakranger

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2011, 09:20:45 PM »
Thats because 18-20 is waaaay below 60.  In your case it does nothing because your video card isn't good enough to exceed you monitor's refresh rate anyway.  On the other hand having it on doesn't hurt anything either.

I just have a stander Dell video card.  Skuzzy made a remark that is amaze that i can even play the game. 
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Offline Wiley

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2011, 10:53:34 PM »
Thanks, BaldEagl.  Appreciate the info.  Last I'd heard, SLI still doesn't do vsync.

The motion blur on tv vs games makes a lot of sense to me.  With my computer, I can tell if my drivers have leaked memory enough to require a reboot when the framerate in AH drops below around 45.  My eye can detect that choppiness.  50-60, it looks the same to me.

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Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2011, 11:52:36 PM »
So, you will see more other people warping? Anyway Mine was 72-99 without the clip board up all evening. Thank you pingplotter.com  :airplane:
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Offline Changeup

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2011, 04:38:36 PM »
Interesting. I wondered why my new card (gts 450) stayed pegged at 60fps. This game doesn't even make the cooling fan come on. Ive seen it dip down to 58fps in a furball loaded with field ack. lol.....

I find that interesting too...my new GTX 460 drops as low as 42 in furballs/smoke/lots of aircraft....1 gig, DDR5.  I wish I wouldn't have bought it really.

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Offline Wiley

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2011, 04:43:46 PM »
I find that interesting too...my new GTX 460 drops as low as 42 in furballs/smoke/lots of aircraft....1 gig, DDR5.  I wish I wouldn't have bought it really.

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Possible the video card's not the bottleneck on your system?

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Offline Changeup

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2011, 04:51:01 PM »
Possible the video card's not the bottleneck on your system?

Wiley.
Nvidia said that the 400 series wouldnt cause a bottleneck on this motherboard (NvIdia 680i SL) with a 700W PS.  I am not sure but I think that the primary PCI slot may not be a 12 volt rail (I have no idea what that means...I just retyped what a guy in our IT group told me) or its not getting all the power it needs from it. 

But, how would one test that theory?  My GTS 250 1 gig, DDR3 was doing fine...truthfully?  Better than this 460.

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"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline katanaso

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2011, 05:41:42 PM »
But, how would one test that theory?  My GTS 250 1 gig, DDR3 was doing fine...truthfully?  Better than this 460.

Changeup

Perhaps different clock speeds?  The GTS 250 was overclocked to a faster speed than what your 460 is currently set to? 

If not, then perhaps different settings such as anti-aliasing, etc?  Maybe they're set much higher with the 460 than you had them with the 250?


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Offline Wiley

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2011, 05:49:02 PM »
Nvidia said that the 400 series wouldnt cause a bottleneck on this motherboard (NvIdia 680i SL) with a 700W PS.  I am not sure but I think that the primary PCI slot may not be a 12 volt rail (I have no idea what that means...I just retyped what a guy in our IT group told me) or its not getting all the power it needs from it. 

But, how would one test that theory?  My GTS 250 1 gig, DDR3 was doing fine...truthfully?  Better than this 460.

Changeup

Somebody else could maybe speak more to the specifics of that motherboard/PS/card combination, it could very well be your video card is starved for power, but here's basically what I mean...

The easiest way to think of PC speed to me is like a chain.  It's only as fast as its slowest link.  CPU speed, amount of RAM, frontside bus speed, and video card are your main speed contributors.  It's quite rare when it comes to gaming that your video card is not the thing working hardest in your system, but it does happen occasionally, and games that are using established game engines like AH tend to be one of those niches.  AH is also apparently fairly reliant on CPU.

What I was basically saying was, assuming the rest of your system stayed the same, and the video card was the only thing that you upgraded, it somewhat indicates your video card might not be the slow link in the chain.

There's a lot of factors that contribute to speed, and the issue you're describing there sounds like it is probably going to be a decent sized pain in the backside to troubleshoot.

Before changing stuff, I'd sit down and consider whether 42fps in a big crowd is that bothersome to you or not.  Does it affect your gameplay, or do you just notice the number drop?  Either answer is fine, I'm just saying sometimes attempting to improve speed can make it worse.  Consider if it's worth the risk.

The other thing to consider, if you have shadows on but don't really care if they are on or not, maybe try turning them off.  They make a huge impact on frame rate, and if you don't mind having them off, that might be a quick solution too.  It's up to you.

The absolute first thing I'd suggest is defrag your hard drive.  It could be your system taking just a bit longer to access files while you're playing causing the frame rate dips.  I've seen that happen in a lot of places, and it's the simplest fix to do.  I'd defrag, then try playing for a while, see if it improves.

If there's no improvement, then you move on to other things.

The next thing I'd nail down is whether your video card is getting enough power.  It's not an issue I've ever had, not quite sure how to troubleshoot it, I'd talk to your IT guru about it if possible.

If that's apparently ok, then I'd move on to some other things.

No offense intended if you're already aware of such things, but generally speaking the place to start is you'd want to make sure your drivers for everything are up to date unless HTC has a preferred set of drivers for that card that is downversion (haven't seen anything like that in a while now though).

Now by drivers for everything, I mean your motherboard chipset drivers, BIOS, sound, and video drivers.  Quite often, motherboard drivers need tweaks as video card technology advances, or bugs are found, or whatever.  People always talk about video and sound, but the BIOS and chipset drivers are also very important.  Your motherboard manufacturer's website is where you'd go for those.

Understand also, these comments are just straight off the top of my head.  Troubleshooting gaming performance is a pretty involved process, and the worst part is, sometimes it's a gamble whether the new versions of drivers will speed you up or slow you down, or introduce other issues sometimes.  But, generally speaking newer is better.

That's where I'd start if I decided it was worth making the changes.

No warranty implied, yadda yadda yadda. ;)

Also check into the stuff mir mentioned.  If your new card supports a higher mode of anti-aliasing or ansiotropic filtering and they're enabled by default, that could cause it.

Wiley.
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Offline Buzzard7

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2011, 06:24:17 PM »
Nvidia said that the 400 series wouldnt cause a bottleneck on this motherboard (NvIdia 680i SL) with a 700W PS.  I am not sure but I think that the primary PCI slot may not be a 12 volt rail (I have no idea what that means...I just retyped what a guy in our IT group told me) or its not getting all the power it needs from it.  

But, how would one test that theory?  My GTS 250 1 gig, DDR3 was doing fine...truthfully?  Better than this 460.

Changeup
How many 12 volt rails does your PS have? I have a 650w PS with a single 12 rail capable of of I think 52 amps. If your card can't draw the amps it needs from the 12 volt rail the PS is useless to it.
Looks like most of the 460 cards require 42 amps on the 12 volt rail.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 06:47:02 PM by Buzzard7 »

Offline jamdive

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Re: What is your fram rate?
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2011, 07:25:13 PM »
How many 12 volt rails does your PS have? I have a 650w PS with a single 12 rail capable of of I think 52 amps. If your card can't draw the amps it needs from the 12 volt rail the PS is useless to it.
Looks like most of the 460 cards require 42 amps on the 12 volt rail.

The most a 650 watt power supply at 120volts can draw is 5.4 amps.