my flight & a question for the ATP pilots

[CAP1]

just got to my brothers house.

 we were supposed to leave philly at 8:30. at 8:20, the guy at the gate by the boarding ramp comes on the pa, and announces that they can't find the air crew. 
 8:25, they said they found a pilot, and he should be there shortly, so they started boarding us. on the plane, the pilot comes on, saying that he's awaiting a copilot, and naviguesser, and we'd be underway in about 20 minutes. he said the reason was that the original plane and crew for this flight got stuck somewhare. i can only assume that means they got "weathered" in somewhere.
so now we're on a different plane with a different crew than it was originally supposed to be,

 here's a question for te ATP doods.......i think it was still an airbus a-320. as he was taxing out, he put out about 10-15 degrees of flaps(are they still called flaps on these planes?). i've never seen any other pilot do this before. i don't think the winds were very heavy, although i did feel a little side to side motion as we accelerated down the runway. i'd guestimate it was around 2,000 to 4,000 ft that he pulled the flaps in.

 now on to the next thing. still climbing, nice n smooth, just like always.....then the pilot comes on, asking if anyone is a doctor, emt, registered nurse, practing nurse, or any health care workers. he goes through all of that, then says if so, could they please go to the back of the plane. apparently there was a diabetic person back there that had a low blood sugar problem, which thankfully they were able to stabilize.

 i wish i had a really good camera, because it's nearly a full moon, and with it shining down on the clouds below us, it was absolutely beautiful.

good smooth landing, and mom met me at the airport....i dunno how the hell she got there, 'cause she can't see to drive at night. so i drove badk........and she kept trying to grab the "oh %^&*" that isn't there.


 overall, decent. i like flying.....just dont like the bs i gotta go through to get to the airplane.

[Golfer]

just got to my brothers house.

 we were supposed to leave philly at 8:30. at 8:20, the guy at the gate by the boarding ramp comes on the pa, and announces that they can't find the air crew.  
 8:25, they said they found a pilot, and he should be there shortly, so they started boarding us. on the plane, the pilot comes on, saying that he's awaiting a copilot, and naviguesser, and we'd be underway in about 20 minutes. he said the reason was that the original plane and crew for this flight got stuck somewhare. i can only assume that means they got "weathered" in somewhere.
so now we're on a different plane with a different crew than it was originally supposed to be,

 here's a question for te ATP doods.......i think it was still an airbus a-320. as he was taxing out, he put out about 10-15 degrees of flaps(are they still called flaps on these planes?). i've never seen any other pilot do this before. i don't think the winds were very heavy, although i did feel a little side to side motion as we accelerated down the runway. i'd guestimate it was around 2,000 to 4,000 ft that he pulled the flaps in.

 now on to the next thing. still climbing, nice n smooth, just like always.....then the pilot comes on, asking if anyone is a doctor, emt, registered nurse, practing nurse, or any health care workers. he goes through all of that, then says if so, could they please go to the back of the plane. apparently there was a diabetic person back there that had a low blood sugar problem, which thankfully they were able to stabilize.

 i wish i had a really good camera, because it's nearly a full moon, and with it shining down on the clouds below us, it was absolutely beautiful.

good smooth landing, and mom met me at the airport....i dunno how the hell she got there, 'cause she can't see to drive at night. so i drove badk........and she kept trying to grab the "oh %^&*" that isn't there.


 overall, decent. i like flying.....just dont like the bs i gotta go through to get to the airplane.

Sorting through this I see this question:

Is it normal to have flaps in during takeoff?

A: Yes.  Airbus 320 (318, 319, 320, 321) airplanes are some of the very few that can takeoff with flaps up in normal airline service as I've seen it done several times.  It actually gets your attention because not having flaps set is unusual.  If you look around at the airliners they will all have a flaps set anywhere from 5-15-20º which is usually done as part of the after start flow and checklist.

They are retracted on a schedule which is dependent on the departure performance you're looking to achieve.  Most airlines if obstacles don't play a factor will climb at a variable speed called V2 to a 1000' AGL acceleration height where they will accelerate to their next climb speed to get the airplane cleaned up.  In the E170/175 this was 210 knots initially.  As you accelerated to flap retraction speed (a Magenta "F" on the speed tape) you called for flaps to the next stage up.  The little pink F would rebug itself and you'd accelerate to your next speed (250 below 10) that speed where you would call for the rest of the flaps up (this is done in stages, one stage of flaps at a time until you're clean = flaps up) which was normal since the E170 for example takes off at "Flaps 2" which has the slats fully deployed and the trailing edge flaps in the neighborhood of 10-15 degrees.  The actual amount I don't remember as it's been years since I flew it but you get the idea.  Once you're clean you're 250 below 10 and at 10,000 you'd accelerate to your enroute climb speed, usually 290kts or so until you intersected your climb mach number around 29,000'.  

Short answer not only is it normal to takeoff with flaps in, it's unusual to not have them in.  Delta 1141 crashed in 1988 in DFW.  This was a Boeing 727 that didn't have its flaps set for takeoff and it killed a bunch of people for instance.

Look around at the other airliners and jets next time you're at the airport.  99.998675309% of them will be taking off with some kind of flaps.  Even my current airplane isn't certified to takeoff with flaps up and we need to have 8º or 20º for takeoff.

[CAP1]

thank ya sir. i guess it's highly possible that i never noticed it before. for some reason, i like sitting at or behind the wing.
 that was i very informative answer.

[Russian]

We usually did a no-flap takeoff when weather was too hot and we couldn't get a required climb-out gradient for a single-engine using flaps at 10.

[Golfer]

Where are you these days Russian?  I was in OKC the other day and a bunch of T1 guys and gals were in and out of Signature all day.

[canacka]

Northwest flight 255 crashed in Aug of '87 at Detroit Metro, no flaps or slats deployed.  It was an MD-80 which ironically was the same as the Delta plane in Texas.  Only 1 survivor in the Northwest crash, a 4 year old girl.  Whats funny is I can still remember her name because she was was dubbed the "Miracle Baby" by our local media, and she was all over the area in prayers.   She also lost her Parents and brother in the crash.

[Russian]

Where are you these days Russian?  I was in OKC the other day and a bunch of T1 guys and gals were in and out of Signature all day.

I'm in vegas now days. 

[AAJagerX]

I'm in vegas now days. 

Vegas...  OK, there's a lovely young woman named Chrissy that you can usually find around the Luxor's shopping area.  She's about 5'8" 120# long blonde hair...  Wait, I shouldn't be giving out top secret info, should I?

 

Have fun at Nellis, and we require more pics!

 

[Bodhi]

Thought Delta 1141 had a false indicator in the cockpit for flaps being in t.o. pos....?

[Golfer]

The takeoff configuration warning if you will wasn't working.  They never set the flaps but they also never got the warning when they advanced the power levers either.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Just to throw it out there, but it's not a jet nor a big plane :

On the Metro II, we use no flaps, on the Metro III we use 10. Same fuselage, yet the III has 5ft more wings and 100HP more per engine. The III is rated for 16,000lbs, the II 13,230lbs.

As soon as u rotate, the III takes off "flat" ... while the II has the "tail sink".

[flight17]

same here...

our C-123K doesnt use them on takeoff though we have a takeoff setting. And on landing I think we only use the takeoff setting  
we have 4 positions: Up, Takeoff, Landing and Full Down. Full down is literally like at 75 degrees down angle if not more.

our shortest flight is 15min to PIT (18nm) Wings over Pit, while our longest was four hours down to Dobbins AFB in Georgia. For the Dobbins trip we probably took off with flaps as we went nonstop which is near full tanks. Most of our shows are within 2 hours flight time of Beaver County: PA, OH, IN, SC and MD (maryland) so we normally arent that heavy. I wasnt there for the Dobbins departure, so they might have used them then as we went nonstop full of fuel. For our flight to Cleveland, we were in the air almost at exactly 2500ft. Not bad for a 40,000-45,000lbs plane with a clean wing.

how long was your flight cap?

[Spikes]

I can't remember a flight where there were no flaps used. Maybe on an almost empty plane down to Florida one time, where my father, mother and I were bumped up to first class on U.S. Air because it was completely empty...that was back in 99.

[CAP1]

ok...i must be a moron. the flight back to philly was in a 757. same thing. flaps(or did you say they're slats golfer? deployed....they looked to be about 10 degrees this time.
 seemed like a smoother take off, and climb too.

[flight17]

ok...i must be a moron. the flight back to philly was in a 757. same thing. flaps(or did you say they're slats golfer? deployed....they looked to be about 10 degrees this time.
 seemed like a smoother take off, and climb too.

slats are at the leading edge of the wing and flaps are at the trailing for a general rule of thumb.

Now Boeing does their system different than Airbus and from what Golfer said Embraer's as well. Boeing will use degree #'s while AB and EMB use position #'s. For example

Boeing 737 has full slats + 1/2/5/10/15/25/30/40 degrees of flaps.
Airbus A320 has Slats 1/2/3 + 1/2/3/full (4) flaps