Bomber pilots/squads, would you be interested in this?

[jimson]

A week long strategic bombing campaign in the Axis vs Allies Arena representing the 8th Air Force vs Luftwaffe (1944) on the BoB 09 terrain.

This would be an attempt to bring bomber pilots/squads and fighter escorts into the arena and give them an important strategic task (success easily defined) and pit luftwaffe fighter pilots against them and their escorts for some higher alt battles.

Airfield towns would serve as strategic targets for the Allies and be set for 75% down for white flag to pop. Town building downtime would be set for approximately 3 hours.

Axis bases would be limited to 10-12 airfields.

Allied objective would be to destroy 5 towns and have 5 white flags flying by nightfall which would occur at 12 midnite est daily. One of the 5 must be at least 3 sectors inland from the coast.

Axis objective would of course be interdiction and saving their towns from destruction.

There will be a hard ceiling (heavy wind downdraft) at 16K making fighter escort highly desirable to get the bombers to target.

Fuel burn rate will be MA standard 2.0 and droptanks will be disabled for all aircraft except for the P-51D

Fighters will be guns/cannons only including gondolas for Luftwaffe

Bomber load outs will be restricted to 250 lb bombs and MA auto calibration might be enabled.

Airfield assets, hangars and such will be hardened to nearly indestructible levels to keep the fight from being shut down.

Allies  B-17
         B-24
         P-47D-25
         P-38J
         P-51B
         P-51D

Axis     BF 109G-6
          BF 109-G14
          FW 190 D9
          FW 190 A8
          BF 110G2

Suggestions welcome

[McDeath]

looks like a fun setup Jimson

[999000]

Bombers would rule!
999000

[MarineUS]

I'll see about getting the DHBG in on this.

[Dichotomy]

Bombers would rule!
999000

no they wouldn't 

[CAP1]

Bombers would rule!
999000

you're only allowed in if you leave your laser sights outside the door.  

but then again, i'd be flying escort in my beloved p-38j

[jimson]

I'll see about getting the DHBG in on this.

I'd like to talk to some bomber guys and get their input, find out from their perspective what they would need to would make it fun.

I'm thinking of running it for a week and during that week set up a squad night or two for some HBG's and escort groups.

[MarineUS]

DHBG will see what we can do about getting a few guys in. Right now with the entire squadron being in the BoG scenario it might over-stretch us, but we've got a few (like me) that would love to hop in.

[321BAR]

DHBG will see what we can do about getting a few guys in. Right now with the entire squadron being in the BoG scenario it might over-stretch us, but we've got a few (like me) that would love to hop in.

same with the 20th FG but i feel we can get enough guys in each day of the setup (10 approx) for this to work

[SectorNine50]

same with the 20th FG but i feel we can get enough guys in each day of the setup (10 approx) for this to work

When I find time, I'll be there!

[oakranger]

P-47D-25  .  i AM IN!

[321BAR]

There will be a hard ceiling (heavy wind downdraft) at 16K making fighter escort highly desirable to get the bombers to target.

Fuel burn rate will be MA standard 2.0 and droptanks will be disabled for all aircraft except for the P-51D
Fighters will be guns/cannons only including gondolas for Luftwaffe

Bomber load outs will be restricted to 250 lb bombs and MA auto calibration might be enabled.

Airfield assets, hangars and such will be hardened to nearly indestructible levels to keep the fight from being shut down.

Allies  B-17
         B-24
         P-47D-25
         P-38J
         P-51B
         P-51D

Axis     BF 109G-6
          BF 109-G14
          FW 190 D9
          FW 190 A8
          BF 110G2


Suggestions welcome

If this is to show realism get rid of the hard cap. The meaning of a bomber raid is the altitude and there will be no way to escort bombers at 16K really when the bombers would want to be above that altitude to begin with. And i say you put the objectives all beyond 2 to 3 sectors inland on this map. I say MA standard goes down the drain and go realism or the fighter escort will not be used well (people will just fly the 51Ds for the tanks) <- Give all fighters their tanks. And the airfield indestructibility idea is perfect


Suggestions given jim hope you listen <S>

[Guppy35]

Make it 1943 instead, using RAF A20s and B25s and 9th AF 26s.  Forget the USAAF stuff and get the Spit Vb and IXs escorting those daily excursions into France to hit airfields.  Throw in some Mossies and Tiffies.  Then the 109Gs, 190A5s and 8s with some 110s possible.  And for added fun give the LW guys Ju88s and 190F8s to try and fly some of those hit and run raids on the English coast that drew so many RAF resources in an effort to stop

Fights won't be so high as the medium bombers set the alt in the 15-18K range.   Spit Vs as close escort.  Spit IXs as high cover and sweeping ahead.  Luftwaffe with the height and the control to choose when to attack, etc etc.

[321BAR]

Make it 1943 instead, using RAF A20s and B25s and 9th AF 26s.  Forget the USAAF stuff and get the Spit Vb and IXs escorting those daily excursions into France to hit airfields.  Throw in some Mossies and Tiffies.  Then the 109Gs, 190A5s and 8s with some 110s possible.  And for added fun give the LW guys Ju88s and 190F8s to try and fly some of those hit and run raids on the English coast that drew so many RAF resources in an effort to stop

Fights won't be so high as the medium bombers set the alt in the 15-18K range.   Spit Vs as close escort.  Spit IXs as high cover and sweeping ahead.  Luftwaffe with the height and the control to choose when to attack, etc etc.

good idea. either kill the hard cap and give us realistic high alt raids or stick with the medium alt RAF raids instead

[jimson]

I'm listening. The 1943 medium bomber scenario is a worthy scenario of its own. I'd like to see if we can make it work with the heavies for one scenario.

The goals are to try to generate something a little more strategic in AvA than just furballing.

Give bomber pilots a reason to come in and give them an objective, something to do.

Take the focus away from base capture and give it it's own AvA twist.

Bring the furballs into something more historically realistic, dogfights between escorts and defenders.

The Alt cap can certainly be raised or removed. It was just an idea to keep things reasonable so that players wouldn't have to spend too much time climbing before getting into a fight.  

Likewise the fuel restrictions. They were there for one, to limit the Luftwaffe to give the allies a better chance to get over the channel and two, to simulate the P-51D's longer range, but we really don't have a map that contains the British coast and Germany.

It's always about trying to find a balance between game playability and historical simulation.

give the LW guys Ju88s and 190F8s to try and fly some of those hit and run raids on the English coast that drew so many RAF resources in an effort to stop

That is also a worthwhile idea. What I was trying to do was keep it an attack and defend scenario just to keep it simple and make the objectives easier to track.

So if we eliminate the alt cap and the fuel restrictions, set the target towns a little further in, maybe also enable the Luftwaffe a bit further in would that be better?

Also, the AvA normally uses manual calibration. Would auto calibration be a bigger draw?

Are the objectives even reasonable?

Granted, I'm not a bomber pilot but my offline testing seems to indicate that the town buildings are too spread out for carpet bombing to be particularly effective.

With a 3 ship formation dropping my whole load with a delay of .75 or 1.0 only netted me a few buildings.

I did a little better with precision bombing. Unopposed and using auto calibration and dropping from 8-9k with a salvo of 2 and delay of .5, by steering from the bombsite to target clusters of buildings, I was able to destroy a dozen.

75% town down would be about 69 buildings. Too hard? Too easy?

Is restricting the heavy load out to 250lb bombs a good idea?

Keep the suggestions coming, they help a lot.