Author Topic: Panther Bug.  (Read 2073 times)

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2011, 08:45:58 PM »
Easy to explain if you think about it. What would happen if the target's view would matter, not the shooters? Where would a player then have to aim to hit his target, especially in a dogfight?  ;)

The Euros certainly do not aim dead on, they account for lag.  You need to listen to ZENZEN (Plymouth, UK) howl on vox sometime.   :D
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2011, 10:48:44 PM »
The Euros certainly do not aim dead on, they account for lag. 

When shooting at the enemy, we don't. When being shot at, we better take it into account :)
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Offline Coronado

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2011, 11:56:47 PM »
The IL2 can easily kill a panther because its top armor and side armor are not any tougher than a panzer.

It is ONLY tough in the front armor and the turret...and youd be wise to sit back 2k+.

I have killed panthers with a t34-85 with HVAP with 2 shots to the turret within 1500 yards.

Long story short don't park diagonal to your enemy like you normally would park directly towards them in the panther.



The panther is not a supertank like the Tiger....I have killed several of them with a m8 in 2 shots from the sides and rear.
Ummm  the Tiger is pretty much a POS too, should be untouchable by American armor 2k and out.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2011, 09:17:59 PM »
Ummm  the Tiger is pretty much a POS too, should be untouchable by American armor 2k and out.

BUMP.  I hope HTC is reviewing the film I sent in.  I'm really very curious as to how at 2800 yards an M4/76mm defeated a Panther.   ;)   I hope to hear something soon!  :pray


As far as the Tiger goes....
I don't think the M4A3/76mm can defeat a Tiger at 2000 yards and further, especially from the front.  AH's own stats show the M4 76mm's 2000 yard penetration capability at 97mm of armor, and the Tiger is at minimum 100mm.  Add in a wee bit of a non-perpendicular impact (canted position of Tiger) and the chances of the M4's 76mm defeating the Tiger only get worse. 

Remember that range and impact angle are two major trump cards.  That goes for all tanks.

 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2011, 10:25:17 PM »
Any verdict???  I've heard nothing, no reply via email or here in the forums.  I hope I didnt submit that in vain.   :cry
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Soulyss

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 10:35:57 AM »
A duel at 2800 yards between a Panther G and a Sherman M4A3/76mm... by all data provided and by all account given, the Panther should have no trouble shrugging off rounds from the 76mm from the Sherman regardless of where it impacts.  

According to the in game information I wouldn't say that this statement is entirely accurate.  The 76mm gun on the Sherman will penetrate 134mm/115mm/97mm at 0, 1k, 2k respectively.  Not counting the turret the thickest armor on the Panther (again using the in game data) is 80mm.  I'm not factoring in and angle of impact here and those penetration values are at 0 deflection but what you described as happening doesn't sound that far out of reach at all.

Of course there could be a bug, but depending on angle, range and where the round actually hit damage may not be as far fetched as you'd think.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:53:56 AM by Soulyss »
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2011, 07:21:34 PM »
According to the in game information I wouldn't say that this statement is entirely accurate.  The 76mm gun on the Sherman will penetrate 134mm/115mm/97mm at 0, 1k, 2k respectively.  Not counting the turret the thickest armor on the Panther (again using the in game data) is 80mm.  I'm not factoring in and angle of impact here and those penetration values are at 0 deflection but what you described as happening doesn't sound that far out of reach at all.

Of course there could be a bug, but depending on angle, range and where the round actually hit damage may not be as far fetched as you'd think.


None of the armor on a Panther is 0 degrees, and we all know what sloped armor does: it "increases" armor thickness and increases the chance of a deflection.  Regardless of where it hit, the impact was not perpendicular vertically or horizontally.  The pics I posted show exactly the angle it hit horizontally, and the vertical impact would not have even allowed the point of the projectile to connect with the armor, so it "should" have been a glance shot, I believe. 

I would have not brought it up if I didn't think there was a legit reason, but at that range the Panther should only fear the Tiger, Firefly, or another Panther.  Just a few days ago I had a spawn "camped", if you will by performing a blocking action between their spawn and town.  I sat out in the open, 2400 yards + from their spawn.  They upped M4A3/76mm, Panzer IV's, and T34/85.  I was taking round after round after round and the Panther shrugged them off.  As I watched the film, I counted 22 enemy tank hits on my Panther, and I ended up with 8 kills.  THAT is what a Panther should be able to do.  So the 2800 yard miracle shot to the tread makes me go :headscratch: .
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline OOZ662

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2011, 12:41:30 AM »
To me it looks like it penetrated the armor behind the road wheels (which I'm assuming isn't very thick, though I may be wrong) and set fire to either ammunition or fuel, which kills the tank.

As to the above conversation, one of the older flight sims (Air Warrior? WarBirds?) used the target's front end for damage calculations...I hear it was pretty horrendous.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2011, 08:38:17 AM »
To me it looks like it penetrated the armor behind the road wheels (which I'm assuming isn't very thick, though I may be wrong) and set fire to either ammunition or fuel, which kills the tank.

As to the above conversation, one of the older flight sims (Air Warrior? WarBirds?) used the target's front end for damage calculations...I hear it was pretty horrendous.

The armor is 40mm thick on the lower hull sides.  Remember the key here is 2800 yards.  Then, the angle of impact.  Then, the round would have had to penetrate the front of the track and wheels for the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the length of the entire tread, THEN penetrate the lower hull side armor.

I hoping HTC can give an explanation as to why it happened.  If the results show the impact was legit and not as the film shows then I'll move on.  I'm still flabber-gasted at the range.   
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline OOZ662

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 01:52:05 PM »
Well, keep in mind as well that if the damage model is as in-depth as HTC claims, spalling from the armor could have set a fire or killed the driver. I wouldn't count the track and wheels for much stopping ability either.

I'd like to hear the result as well, though.
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2011, 07:19:15 PM »
Yes.  Thread is STILL alive.   ;)
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Panther Bug.
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2011, 10:58:35 PM »
Stayin' alive, staying alive..  ha ha ah staying aliiii iiii  iiii ve.  [insert disco guitar here]

 ;)
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.