Vulch fests

[Krusty]

So... Now pickers are ruining the game for everybody else?

Vink, you seem more and more to have a very big agenda with this thread, and that agenda is to make others fly the way you want. No picking. No vulching... You seem more and more to have blinders on and only want to see a fight be 1v1 at 5k in similar planes with no E-state difference (or fill in your ideal fight) at the expense of everybody else but you.


It just doesn't happen. Time to move on. There are countless ways to engage in combat in here, and they don't all fit such a narrow definition.

Again, you're trying to present totally subjective opinions as objective facts. It doesn't work.

[FLS]

Some of that is true. But it ignores that there is more than one truth, and another truth is that people do adjust their tactics to achieve high scores.  If the tactics employed to achieve high scores are detrimental to the overall fun of arena players as a whole, and that could be corrected by enhancing the scoring system, wouldn't you be for it?

 Yes flying around at high alt in a perk plane and diving down on dogfighting bandits and picking them, ends the fun for the bandit, and for his competition.  1 guy had fun, two guys didn't. So the picker is not really letting them play their way is he?  He is having fun at the expense of other's fun. If that's his personallity fine, it's his $14.95, and I'm ok with that. But what if he picks because that's the "smartest" way to achieve a high score? Then the scoring system is ill designed for promoting fun experiences for all players. An improvement may be possible.  

I don't accept the premise the winning is fun and losing is no-fun, so 50% of the arena population is condemed to not having fun. Losing is fun too if quality combat preceeded it. Getting picked, getting vulched, getting ganged, is not quality combat. That is why the losers whine, not because they lost. While those situations cannot be avoided, perhaps the game would profit from scoring system that didn't promote those behaviors.  I think it's worth investigating  

You are using premises and conditional statements as conclusions. Also your facts and percentages are just made up although I think the 14.95 is reasonably accurate.    The idea that all players will enjoy losing if the fight changes isn't supported. The notion that all players can avoid frustration by changing the score system isn't supported. It may be true for every player who's outlook is close enough to yours but it ignores the variety of players in AH and the fact the player's goals evolve according to their experience and ability.

[Vinkman]

So... Now pickers are ruining the game for everybody else?

Vink, you seem more and more to have a very big agenda with this thread, and that agenda is to make others fly the way you want. No picking. No vulching... You seem more and more to have blinders on and only want to see a fight be 1v1 at 5k in similar planes with no E-state difference (or fill in your ideal fight) at the expense of everybody else but you.


It just doesn't happen. Time to move on. There are countless ways to engage in combat in here, and they don't all fit such a narrow definition.

Again, you're trying to present totally subjective opinions as objective facts. It doesn't work.

<sigh>   Sorry Krusty you just don't seem to be able to think past this "I'm trying make peole fight my way" bias of yours.

[JUGgler]

 IMO 2 absolutes stand the test of time in AH

#1- EVERYONE hates being vulched, picked, camped and HOd

#2- EVERYONE looks the otherway when they themselves vulch, pick, camp and HO 

It is a long standing tradition

I believe not 1 person can deny #1 yet most will not even entertain #2  lol
 The elephant in the room is virtualy invisible

My thoughts were only to alter 1 very very small part of 1 of these behaviors!


Aces HIpocracy <---   LOL



JUGgler

[PJ_Godzilla]

IMO 2 absolutes stand the test of time in AH

#1- EVERYONE hates being vulched, picked, camped and HOd

#2- EVERYONE looks the otherway when they themselves vulch, pick, camp and HO 

JUGgler

I'll readily cop to 2. I love vulching. The problem is getting to the head of the train. Usually, it's just a formula for assists. Picking, otoh, demands some gunnery skill and is something I'm working hard on (hehe, I said hardon).

Camping... never really did it. It sounds a bit too sedentary for me. Ho'ing I'll only do selectively. 

[sky25]

OK true. I use the term Sissy because it's a pejorative, and because I want to discredit the idea that avoiding combat is "smart". I never avoid combat, and I don't think I'm stupid. But I see where the use of the term will create an "elitist" idea of who to fly so will stop using it. 

If a crew is taking a base and holding cap on a field, why would they want to allow someone to up and possibly kill troops or the goon? I have seen many base takes fail because one fast spit managed to up and get to one troop running into the map room..

Vulching is part of the game.. Always will be...

[Ack-Ack]

Vulching is part of the game..

A fun part of the game too.

ack-ack

[BnZs]

IMO 2 absolutes stand the test of time in AH

#1- EVERYONE hates being vulched, picked, camped and HOd

#2- EVERYONE looks the otherway when they themselves vulch, pick, camp and HO 

#1 I mostly take those things in stride. The things that really hack me off if anything are being denied a kill because some bandit whose dead six I've gotten on does a good imitations of a landed trout, because they dive 15K to ack out of a perfectly fair fight, or because manage to ditch and tower their wreckage.

Huh...funny...seems like whether I am killed or not isn't really an issue for me but not getting a kill is what annoys me...wonder what that says about my personality.

#2 I'll admit I've done all of those things whenever I feel like, just as I'll proudly tell you've I've done WHATEVER I feel like whenever I had the capacity to do so my whole freakin' life. What I'll get slightly hacked off at you about is calling imprecations down on my manhood or the like because I'm cherrying a base when base cherrying is the only kind of fight you can find in the freakin' arenas anymore!

[BnZs]

A fun part of the game too.

ack-ack

I don't see how...shooting a bird on the wing is much more fun. Vulching is just a boring strafing chore, basically.

[Guppy35]

A fun part of the game too.

ack-ack

Can't agree with ya on that one AKAK.  Bores me to tears.  At that point I land at their field and drive into a hanger.

[Guppy35]

Guppy you make the same mistake that Vinkman does. You define other players motivations to support your point. Players vulch for a number of reasons, not just to see their name in lights. The primary reason, I'm guessing, is fun. If the vulchee is the only thing to shoot at you can watch somebody else do it or do it yourself or go somewhere else. Are all valid choices.

Bustr makes a good point. The top sticks don't complain so much. They have adapted to the current system. The players who can spank newbies and would like to be top sticks tend to think of all the reasons why they're not getting all the kills they deserve to get. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, I'm speaking generally. It's human nature for people who perceive themselves as being near the top to bully their perceived inferiors in order to improve their own positions. In Aces High we see this all the time with the complaints about other people's choices in aircraft, tactics, and game play goals. So we have the HOing spitdweeb hoarding runstang etc epithets from everybody who believes that their true greatness will be apparent as soon as HTC fixes Aces High or the players all start playing the right and proper way.

Could be.  With that in mind, what harm would come from making vulch kills not count towards attaboys? 

If it's for the fun of it, for the capture or whatever, the actual 'vulch' in iteself would be the reward correct?  If I'm wrong, and it's not about attaboys, nothing will change and people can vulch to their hearts content anyway

You've flown with and around me long enough FLS to know there is little hope of me attaining my 'greatness' nor do I care.  I just like a good fight

[sky25]

Can't agree with ya on that one AKAK.  Bores me to tears.  At that point I land at their field and drive into a hanger.

I would bet that many guys secretly get pleasure from destroying some poor sap who thinks he will take off from that capped field.. Complete and total ownage!!

[Guppy35]

I would bet that many guys secretly get pleasure from destroying some poor sap who thinks he will take off from that capped field.. Complete and total ownage!!

If that's complete and total ownage, our definitions are different

[waystin2]

If that's complete and total ownage, our definitions are different

Nowhere near ownage in any shape or form.  Eventually yes it will become boring.  At first it's like that first firework you light at the July 4th party. "Boom"  heh heh that was cool.  By the 30th or 40th firework, you are wondering if there is something else to do at the party...

[FLS]

Could be.  With that in mind, what harm would come from making vulch kills not count towards attaboys? 

If it's for the fun of it, for the capture or whatever, the actual 'vulch' in iteself would be the reward correct?  If I'm wrong, and it's not about attaboys, nothing will change and people can vulch to their hearts content anyway

You've flown with and around me long enough FLS to know there is little hope of me attaining my 'greatness' nor do I care.  I just like a good fight

I don't believe I predicted any harmful effects. My point was that vulching is fun. Changing the points system would not change that.

If you think there was anything in the second paragraph that applied to you please let me know.