shoot downs in AvA

[Vinkman]

Last night I spent a good hour or so in AvA on the axis side. We had 109E vs hurri 1s and Spit 1s. I love the no icon set up AVA and generally love the action, and game play. But I have to say I have two complaints. First was the Puffy being active on the ships in port, which essentially provided flak cover for the much of the English coast which was needlessly anoying.

But my real gripe was the difficulty in shooting down planes. An Bf 109E has 2 20mm cannons with 120 rounds per gun and 2 7.9mm machine guns with 2000 rounfds. And yet, it took 3 or 4 109s ganging a single hurrican to bring it down. I was told the 20mm are the old type and are less lethal, so I'm taking that into account when I say that the gun packages seem severly under modelled. I chased a hurri around from 200-400 yrds hitting him with a minimum of 5% of my 20mm rounds [10-12 rounds] and emptied all 2000 30 cal into him with what I would call better than average hit rates.   He flew away.
This happened repeatedly. I don't know if wood and canvass Hurris are modelled to tough, or the rounds are modelled to weak, but it strikes me that if they are close to reality then no one would have shot anyone down in the war. I did get kills when I had a full cannon load and scored 2 sec bursts on Spit 1s. But a 2-3 sec burst of 2x20mm from 200 yrds would NOT bring down a hurricane. And it was my experience that a Boston could not be brought down by a single fighter.

I think the bullets are not lethal enough. I'm sure this is not exclusive to AvA but it is hi-lighted by that gun packages available.  If the 30 cals are modeled correctly the Battle of Britain would have been a zero-zero tie.

As for AvA, If I out fly a hurri or a spit in 109E and score a high percentage of hits from close range, and can't get a kill.....What's the point?

The action was fun but the results were beyond frustrating. 

[Atticus4]

Vinkman,

If it was the fight that started around 10-12 K and rolled down eventually to the deck, then I believe that was me in the Hurri your commenting on....I was banged up pretty bad, then the horde of Axis got involved and I think I luckily killed one or two, but ultimately succumbed.  Just so you know, I had 27 rounds out of 1300, most of which I thought I put on you and yet you didn't go down.  I was thinking the same thing you note in your post, but from the Allieds side.  Good fighting though 

[gyrene81]

what do you have your convergence set to? i pushed mine out to 375 and was able to get a good concentration of fire on target...it did take a lot of hits to knock parts off the hurricane i flew in one sortie...i eventually lost half a wing

on the flip side i noticed it took a good bit of ammo at close range to damage the 109s...several times i put a heavy burst around the cockpit, to the point it looked like 20mm hits (from my viewpoint) only to have the same 109 come back to shoot me down...

[Vinkman]

Vinkman,

If it was the fight that started around 10-12 K and rolled down eventually to the deck, then I believe that was me in the Hurri your commenting on....I was banged up pretty bad, then the horde of Axis got involved and I think I luckily killed one or two, but ultimately succumbed.  Just so you know, I had 27 rounds out of 1300, most of which I thought I put on you and yet you didn't go down.  I was thinking the same thing you note in your post, but from the Allieds side.  Good fighting though 

It was a good fight <S>!  I didn't fly allies, but I assumed the same issue applied in reverse.  

[Vinkman]

what do you have your convergence set to? i pushed mine out to 375 and was able to get a good concentration of fire on target...it did take a lot of hits to knock parts off the hurricane i flew in one sortie...i eventually lost half a wing

on the flip side i noticed it took a good bit of ammo at close range to damage the 109s...several times i put a heavy burst around the cockpit, to the point it looked like 20mm hits (from my viewpoint) only to have the same 109 come back to shoot me down...

Convergence was set to 450. I had that same thing happen with a hurri.. I got on his 6 in a fresh plane. Empltied my guns into him at very respectible hit % and ran out of bullets, at which point he flat turned around the circle until I had to exit and shot me down from my six at 400 ydrs, after emptying him guns into me for the next 3-5 minutes.

That was when I quit.       

[Oldman731]

Convergence was set to 450.

This might be your problem.

The 1940 plane set is unique for several reasons, the biggest being that none of the planes involved has the .50s or 20mm cannon of later planes.  The Emil has MG FFs rather than the MG 151s that the later Luftwaffe planes had.  The MG FF fires a smaller shell at a lower muzzle velocity, with the dual effect of causing noticeably less damage when it hits, and a softball-like trajectory.  Not a thing you can do about the first problem, but the second you can take care of by bringing the convergence in (I have mine set to 200 yards in the Emil) and closing to that distance - or less - before you shoot.  I suspect that you were missing with a lot of your cannon shells because of the convergence setting.

The .303s on the British fighters can be even more frustrating.  As rifle-caliber guns they lack much velocity out past 200 yards (think of how far you'd fire a .303 at a deer) and fire bullets that are 1/4 as heavy as a .50 slug.  Result:  you have to get close and have them all set to converge at a close range.  I have mine set to 175 yards, many set them a bit further out, some in as close as 150.  At those ranges, btw, they do a great job of really chopping up an enemy plane.

Once you get used to the notion that neither of the British fighters, nor the Emil, can have much success with snap shots, and combine that with the grim realization that you have to get close on the enemy's tail AND STAY THERE, the BoB becomes a lot of fun.  It's absolutely my favorite plane set for those reasons.

- oldman

[CAP1]

what do you have your convergence set to? i pushed mine out to 375 and was able to get a good concentration of fire on target...it did take a lot of hits to knock parts off the hurricane i flew in one sortie...i eventually lost half a wing

on the flip side i noticed it took a good bit of ammo at close range to damage the 109s...several times i put a heavy burst around the cockpit, to the point it looked like 20mm hits (from my viewpoint) only to have the same 109 come back to shoot me down...

i can't fly and fight in the spit1....in the hurri1 i have my convergence set to 350 though. it works well for me there.

[CAP1]

Convergence was set to 450. I had that same thing happen with a hurri.. I got on his 6 in a fresh plane. Empltied my guns into him at very respectible hit % and ran out of bullets, at which point he flat turned around the circle until I had to exit and shot me down from my six at 400 ydrs, after emptying him guns into me for the next 3-5 minutes.

That was when I quit.       

vink...it sounds like you're shooting too far out.

try the usmk9 gunsight. it's basically 2 rings with a dot. when they fill the inner ring, they're about 400 yards, and the outer ring is about 200 yards.

[captain1ma]

before i took off in my boston O' death last night, i put it in the shop. i had the boys add special kevlar lightweight armor to the skin of the plane. then i had them repaint it with the same paint scheme.

when i took off i had a nearly indestructible boston bomber. i then exacted my vengeance on the krauts with extreme predjudice. you were all already dead when i took off, you just didnt know it yet!  

[ImADot]

Absolutely spot on with the convergence discussion.  My Hurri-1 is set at 250 and I hold fire until I think they're at 300, but really press to 200 or closer before getting serious on the trigger.  At 200 or closer, I can saw off a wing or a tail with no more than a 1 second burst.

[Dichotomy]

hmmm I didn't even think about that.  I thought I was bring pathetic shooting to a new level. 

[Shifty]

Vink like all the above have said pull your convergence in to around 200. Also the loadout for the Emil is 60 rounds per gun 120 rounds total.

[Krusty]

I took down 3x B-17s in a 109E once (an entire formation) and had almost 30 rounds left over after the fact.


Here's a learning tool for you, Vinkman: Only fire the cannons by themselves. You're seeing MG17 hit sprites and thinking they are 20mm hits. If you only fire cannons you'll only see cannon hits.


Normally I suggest you fire 'em all (you need everything you can get!) but for learning exercises I think this might help you get used to the gunnery on the Emil. When in doubt, get CLOSER.

[Jappa52]

This might be your problem.
"Snip"
-oldman

^^This. And coming in from the MAs I shorted my convergence from 500 to 300. It took a little getting used to but then again this arena is not like the Mains. I feel that this arena is a little more.... personal. The lack of icons forces your tactics to change a little and brings you in closer. In the Mains I was routinely taking shots out at 500 but in the AVA I rarely take a shot over 400, most of them are 2-300.

[Vinkman]

Here's a learning tool for you, Vinkman: Only fire the cannons by themselves. You're seeing MG17 hit sprites and thinking they are 20mm hits. If you only fire cannons you'll only see cannon hits.

This is true, and At times I fire both , with the 303s scoring hits and 20mms going somewhere else. So I try to shoot them one at a time.

But not to seem unappreciative of the convergense advise, Hitting them is not the problem. I'm Hitting them a plenty! It the dying they're not doing that is frustrating me.