Author Topic: A noobs report: WW1 Arena  (Read 4379 times)

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2011, 09:56:17 AM »
No, I've only posted doubt, FLS. :)  Last time I checked the standard of evidence for doubt was rather low. :D
gavagai
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2011, 10:24:51 AM »
No, I've only posted doubt, FLS. :)  Last time I checked the standard of evidence for doubt was rather low. :D

LoL.  How DARE you question ANYTHING!  You should grovel and prostrate yourself before HTC as if they were Gods!  :rofl


(Wabbit is amused.)

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Yeager

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2011, 10:35:22 AM »
Well..whatever they (HTC) did with regards to the initial WW1 implementation, overall I think it was a bit of a squib load in the final analysis.  Could have been thought out and done better.  For me, having the DR1 in the initial release really sealed the deal.  That plane should have been one of the last brought in.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2011, 10:36:38 AM »
I'm glad you're amused Wabbit.  But we've been around flight sims long enough to know that many, many changes have occurred in the past, and therefore it's not unreasonable to expect that there will be more changes in the future.  Long defunct flight models were defended with gnashing of teeth before they were finally "updated."

If anyone is not convinced that young flight models take time to mature, just read this page and compare it to our own P-38L:

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/P-38L.htm

The damn thing used to out-turn every Spitfire and rolled better than a 190 (with a tiny moment of inertia).  And yes, people defended it vehemently.  We were told not to question anything; told it was obnoxious to request supporting data that had been paid for; told that we better have our own contradicting data before we could justifiably stir up trouble...and so on.
gavagai
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Offline FLS

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2011, 11:12:11 AM »
No, I've only posted doubt, FLS. :)  Last time I checked the standard of evidence for doubt was rather low. :D

Ok you doubt the model but you don't think it's wrong. Thanks for clearing that up. 

:D
LoL.  How DARE you question ANYTHING!  You should grovel and prostrate yourself before HTC as if they were Gods!  :rofl

(Wabbit is amused.)


Wabbit is over-reacting and has entitlement issues.


Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2011, 11:16:39 AM »
Ok you doubt the model but you don't think it's wrong. Thanks for clearing that up. 

Sorry, I must not have made myself clear.  There can be no question of wrong or right if there is no accepted value.  "Wrong or right" here is a categorical error.
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Offline FLS

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2011, 11:21:42 AM »
Sorry, I must not have made myself clear.  There can be no question of wrong or right if there is no accepted value.  "Wrong or right" here is a categorical error.

I'm pretty sure that everybody including HTC has unanswered questions but I don't believe that any values were just made up and can therefor be arbitrarily changed.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 11:23:21 AM by FLS »

Offline CptTrips

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2011, 11:28:19 AM »
Wabbit is over-reacting and has entitlement issues.

So you want to make this personal now?

I could say that FLS is an ankle-humper who can't stand the idea of having his master questioned.

But I won't stoop to your level.

:cool:,
Wab
 
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2011, 12:08:53 PM »
We were told not to question anything; told it was obnoxious to request supporting data that had been paid for; told that we better have our own contradicting data before we could justifiably stir up trouble...and so on.

Oh Anaxogoras (Damn dude, get an easier to spell handle!), you're just over-reacting again.

And appearently you have entitlement issues.   

Work on that. :rofl


Didn't the F41C here used to be about 400lb lighter?

BTW.  I don't think HTC is the problem here.  They've always seemed to be willing to discuss the modeling in a reasonable manner.  The problem usually comes in the form of frothing-at-the-mouth, yapping, fanboi poodles who see any questioning as a threat to their owner.  Makes you want to soak a porkchop in antifreeze.  :t

 :D,
Wab
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Offline FLS

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2011, 12:46:57 PM »
Well Wabbit you certainly proved me wrong.  :D

Offline CptTrips

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2011, 12:52:41 PM »
yap yap yap yapyap yap


Throws porkchop.  Fetch FLS!  Fetch!

Good girl.....Good GIRL!

:rofl,
Wab
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 12:54:20 PM by AKWabbit »
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Offline Sid

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2011, 02:02:17 PM »
The top dive speed I can get out of our WWI planes without falling apart are as follow. All were tested with a quarter of fuel

1. DR.1  143mph

2. D.VII  181mph

3. F-1 camel 161mph

4.F.2B 165mph.


Not sure I agree with your results R105.

Testing in the Training Arena from the high alt airfields, with a quarter tank of fuel, I measured four speeds in a sustained 1G dive with the "WW1 Engine Governor" switched off.

a) The speed at which something failed structurally
b) The speed at which the engine started to over speed with full power
c) The speed at which the engine started to over speed with idle power
d) The speed at which the engine started to over speed with the engine switched off

The structural speed is Indicated airspeed dependant, where as the engine speed is True airspeed dependant. (You will obviously only reach some of the engine speed limits before the structural limits at high altitude).

1. Dr.1  a) 171mph IAS b) 122mph TAS c) 158mph TAS d) 191mph TAS

2. D.VII a) 180mph IAS b) 152mph TAS c) 216mph TAS d) 216mph TAS

3. F.1   a) 180mph IAS b) 129mph TAS c) 188mph TAS d) 193mph TAS

3. F.2b  a) 177mph IAS b) 153mph TAS c) 223mph TAS d) 223mph TAS



I found a bit more light reading here  :D

naca-report-469.pdf - Measurement of accelerations on aeroplanes in flight

naca-report-494.pdf - Stresses in an aeroplane when diving steeply

naca-report-491.pdf - Stress calculations on the SE5 aeroplane

naca-report-496.pdf - Possible loading of wings and body of an aeroplane in flight
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Offline Tinribs

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2011, 03:37:54 PM »
If you listen carefully when a dr1 is diving you can hear it singing "putting on the ritz" ;)
I carnt relax cos I havent done a thing and I carnt do a thing cos I carnt relax.

Offline FLS

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2011, 03:57:14 PM »
Nice job Sid.  :aok

Offline SCTusk

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Re: A noobs report: WW1 Arena
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2011, 09:34:57 PM »
Interesting how polarised these essentially data-based discussions get. Personally I recently had an epiphany of sorts and suddenly realised I'm actually a reincarnated RFC pilot who died of injuries while attempting to fly my Camel through the Swiss alps to neutral safety in September 1917. It explains a number of things, namely why my hands always tremble when I see enemy aircraft and also that annoying pain in my rear end, presumably caused by a bullet wound sustained while departing a furball, if memory serves fired by my C.O.

Anyway I can now say with some authority that the Dr1 model in AH sucks, we used to shoot them down by the dozen (although there were only a few dozen to start with so we didn't see much of them). Again if memory serves I probably got at least fifteen of the little blighters, and I was a relatively poor airman and worse shot. Half of those I claimed as kills literally fell apart trying to out-turn my F.1, which incidentally turned like nothing else ever built due to the massive gyroscopic forces of the heavy rotary engine and having all the mass stuck up the front in the first seven feet of the nose. Those Sopwith designers really knew their eggs, not like that pratt Fokker who basically copied the Sopwith Triplane and IMHO did a pretty poor job of it. Seems I'm not the only one who thought so either, as they only had a short production run and even the Red Knight himself died in one, serves him right I reckon.

I must say reading all these well informed posts takes on a new perspective once your previous-life memory kicks in, nice to see such confidence backed up by.... ahhh, see now I'm having trouble with recent memory now, I've forgotten what it's backed up by  :headscratch:

Anyhow the main thing is we don't do anything to improve gameplay; whether or not the available data is valid we must at all times ensure that the gameplay favours the more prolific lowbrow with limited skillset and plenty of spare cash, after all they are the bread and butter for games like this.  :salute
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