B29 & A2A Rockets

[Gman]

I just spent an hour reading a lot of the B29 threads, and I haven't seen anyone bring up the topic of using the air to air rockets we have against them.  Perhaps that's because they are very hard to employ and don't function as easily or have the lethality that they did in WW2.  In fact, since playing off and on since 1999, I can't even remember seeing somebody else use them against bombers (I didn't fly scenarios until the last year).  Think about the last time, if ever, you saw somebody use them in the main arena....I bet it isn't often for ANYONE.

This brings me to my point:  If the A2A rockets/mortars/etc were revised in game to work better (edit: more easily employed rather) than they do, and if this isn't an issue and is merely in my head, then at least add the variant of the 262 that had air to air rockets...I think that would be a more effective counter especially for the B29 since it's defensive ordnance will demolish even a well flown 262 IMO, since the B17/B24 does this already.  Perhaps being able to lob accurate, EFFECTIVE rockets from just out of guns range will balance the imaginary scales.  From what I've read the 262 rockets were extremely effective in real life, and were only made less so by the fact that there were SO many escort fighters and so few 262's.  If this was transalted to our game, where most of the time there is no escort for bombers, should be a snap to do some damage from 1.5k - 2k distance.

Comments from those experienced in employing current rockets in game wanted.

[Ack-Ack]

The A2A rockets in this game are very effective against bombers.  If you have any data that shows otherwise then please share it.

ack-ack

[Gman]

I was actually looking for the data that shows that they ARE effective.  Again, I've never seen them used in game other than the few times I've tried them, and this is what I was getting at - how good can they be and how easy can they be to employ when you barely ever, if EVER see them used.  Plus, we have no idea what the stats are for the rockets used by the 262 as we don't have them, and again, that's what I'm looking for, the opinions of the self described and anointed experts on how well they would work in relation to the B29.

There isn't any data for how good the rockets we have no do or do not work, only opinion, and since I pointed out I've only tried them a few times and am soliciting the opinions of those who DO use them as to how good the 262 rockets would be vs high alt bombers.

I searched through the stats functions we have and I can't find anyway to tell what type of gun/ord is responsible for kills.  It is my SUSPICION that less than 5% of bombers are killed by rockets, and this is probably even high.  I've never seen anyone say "nice rocket shot" when their bomber gets whacked, and I'd bet that the lions share of bombers are killed at medium, not high alt like most of the B29's we'll be seeing will be at.


edit: Upon futher reading the R4M was usually employed at 600 meters as the pilots could then use the MK108 gunsite as the trajectory was the same at this range.  Kind of defeats my purpose of long range lobbing to keep the 262 out of B29 gun range.

The 21 cm Werfergranate 42 was an extremely effective air to air missile system, in one particular air battle on the 14th of October 1943 over Schweinfurt. It was used against 228 Boeing B-17 bombers, 62 were shot down in the initial engagement 17 others crash landed in Britain and a further 121 were so badly damaged that they had to be broken up.

Everyone knows about the Schweinfurt raids, but I'd be interested to know how many of the bombers shwaked were actually hit by rockets and not cannon/mg fire. 

[Spikes]

Look up Boxman.

[Gman]

Rgr will do thanks.

[RTHolmes]

the Wgrs are very effective, with a little practice lobbing 2 into a formation should get you 2.5 kills every time (finish the last drone off with cannon)

I used to use them all the time for buff hunting in 110s, you're easy meat for any escorts though. you dont see them used that often, maybe because the expended rocket tubes are a nightmare for handling, turns the 110 into a real pig to fight in.

[mbailey]

Heres a thread showing Boxman killing just about everything with rockets Enjoy........http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,281968.0.html

[SmokinLoon]

Currently, it is far easier to learn how to properly employ the sweeping "gun vs bomber" attack then learning the proper range, aiming point, speeds, etc in which to deploy the German WGr21 air to air rockets.  The WGr21 projectiles have a timed fuse and unless you are close enough the bomber when they explode, as in close enough for "puffy ack" burst to do damage, you are taking a lot of extra weight and drag (even after launch the drag of the tubes is quite noticeable), most people elect to not use them.

Timing the launch of the WGr21's is not easy.  The speed of the bombers, the speed of the firing plane, and the trajectory of the rockets are factors that need to be dealt with, not to mention the actual range of the rockets.

I tried multiple times using the 109, 190, and 110 as launching platforms, using all the tips and tricks given by veterans of the weapon to bring down enemy bombers with the WGr21 rockets and found myself close, but not close enough.  As I watched the films I could see parts of the enemy bombers being blown off, but I was not ever to hit an engine, cause a fuel leak, or do anything other then what I call "tertiary" damage.

Perhaps vs the much bigger target and defenses of the B29 the WGr21's will see a gain in popularity.  But then again, they are even bigger targets to hit and the cannons of the 190A-8 or NiK2 "George" will do nicely, I'm sure.            

[Spikes]

Rgr will do thanks.

Sorry, was at the airport. That guy is insane at killing guys with them. Saw him get a 163 with it once.

[Urchin]

Sadly, the video doesn't come up.  It would be interesting to see. 

In AH, the rockets are practically useless, for reasons that were already given.  In real life, .50 caliber fire was ineffective at 1000 m range, so rocket equipped fighters could camp out behind the bomber formation to lob their rockets in.  In the game, .50s are lethal out to ~1600 m (IIRC, it has been several years since moot and I played around with rockets in the DA), and the ideal launching distance for the rockets is around 1400 m (again, IIRC).  In other words, you are toast if you try to line up a shot from the rear of the formation, because it is pretty much point and click for the bomber pilot. 

One thing that might make the rockets more attractive is if the tubes could be jettisoned like they could be in real life.  Don't believe it will ever happen though, IIRC Hitech said if they made them jettisonable there wouldn't be a downside to taking them.

[68ZooM]

110's with rockets will work wonders on those 29's

[Gman]

Were the 109/110 rockets timed only fuse in r/l or did they have an impact fuse as well?  I've read the R4M 262 rockets were impact fused, which should be WAY easier to employ then a timed fused warhead.  24 impact fused rockets would up the 262 lethality vs bombers considerably I would think.

Also, all of Boxman's films are gone, file not found, and I assume the Persona non grata thing in his name description means he is banned and won't be answering any PM's anytime soon.

In AH, the rockets are practically useless, for reasons that were already given.  In real life, .50 caliber fire was ineffective at 1000 m range, so rocket equipped fighters could camp out behind the bomber formation to lob their rockets in.  In the game, .50s are lethal out to ~1600 m (IIRC, it has been several years since moot and I played around with rockets in the DA), and the ideal launching distance for the rockets is around 1400 m (again, IIRC).  In other words, you are toast if you try to line up a shot from the rear of the formation, because it is pretty much point and click for the bomber pilot. 

This is exactly my point as well.

[shiv]

Boxman is alive on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcL8-Cw8iaA&feature=related

[PFactorDave]

Boxman is alive on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcL8-Cw8iaA&feature=related

I've seen that video before, but it's still pretty darn impressive.

I would be interested in someone with the skill discussing how best to aim the rockets etc.  Perhaps the B29 invasion will prompt more folks (myself included) to spend the time to learn how to use these things.

[Gman]

^^ Agree 100% with above.

Wow, so there IS one guy who uses rockets.  I figured there had to be at least somebody who had taken the time to figure them out, Boxman's UTUBE video's are SICK.

I still think impact fuses will be far better than timed ones in the game, I hope we get R4M's shortly after the B29 comes around.