Turning question

[badhorse]

I need some help understanding the way our cartoon airplanes react in a turn.  I was in a fight and we were both in Spit 8's. I had started out with an altitude advantage but lost that and we ended up in a turn fight. I have listened to advice and have my stall limiter turned off and I use rudder pedals. The other Spit was able to turn inside my turn. I would have thought that as long as I kept it on the ragged edge of stalling, the best we could have done was just keep circling each other. Please let me say. THIS IS NOT A WHINE. I DON'T BELIEVE THE OTHER GUY WAS CHEATING. I am just trying to understand what I did wrong so I can fix it.  Thanks

[Hawk55]

Did you film it? 

[NormH3]

perhaps he engaged flaps and had a slower airspeed (im just guessing..im a guesser)

[TequilaChaser]

I need some help understanding the way our cartoon airplanes react in a turn.  I was in a fight and we were both in Spit 8's. I had started out with an altitude advantage but lost that and we ended up in a turn fight. I have listened to advice and have my stall limiter turned off and I use rudder pedals. The other Spit was able to turn inside my turn. I would have thought that as long as I kept it on the ragged edge of stalling, the best we could have done was just keep circling each other. Please let me say. THIS IS NOT A WHINE. I DON'T BELIEVE THE OTHER GUY WAS CHEATING. I am just trying to understand what I did wrong so I can fix it.  Thanks

1st - always try and film your fights..save them at the end of each sortie if they are something you want to keep, otherwise just delete them...

2nd- turning on the ragged edge of the stall is not all what others say it is, you might be able to turn in a tighter radius ( not always ) but you will take longer to get around that turn ( Circle ).... using/applying a better turnrate speed will be more beneficial than turning "tight"

3rd - also having (2) planes flying circles with each other, one can offset the circle just a little bit and make it look like they are gaining angles on you ( example: think of 2 quarters laying 1/2 way covering each other, now imagine a plane flying the outer edge around each quarter at the same location on each quarter, can you see how each plane would see the other getting inside one's turn or each plane at different times gaining angles depending on where they are in the turn ( or as in the example where they are located on that outside edge of the quarter )

4th- speed, flaps, Trim all play a part in this as well, when it is between (2) planes of the same type, also how much weight differential is their between he 2 planes as far as fuel and ammo goes......

Using a faster turnrate is always better than using the tightest turn radius......

hope this helps

[badhorse]

[/quote]
2nd- turning on the ragged edge of the stall is not all what others say it is, you might be able to turn in a tighter radius ( not always ) but you will take longer to get around that turn ( Circle ).... using/applying a better turnrate speed will be more beneficial than turning "tight"


4th- speed, flaps, Trim all play a part in this as well, when it is between (2) planes of the same type, also how much weight differential is their between he 2 planes as far as fuel and ammo goes......

Using a faster turnrate is always better than using the tightest turn radius......

hope this helps
[/quote]

First, thanks for the responses and no I didn't film it. I know I should have, it would have helped.

2nd)  Can you tell me how I can get a better turnrate without just "tightening" the turn? It seems to me that increasing aileron/rudder input would give me a better turnrate but that is also tightening the turn.

3)  I did not use flaps. With a Spit the flaps are all or nothing. I thought they were intended for landing not maneuvering.

4)  I had taken off with half tanks but had flown awhile. I don't know what his fuel load was.

[TequilaChaser]

First, thanks for the responses and no I didn't film it. I know I should have, it would have helped.

2nd)  Can you tell me how I can get a better turnrate without just "tightening" the turn? It seems to me that increasing aileron/rudder input would give me a better turnrate but that is also tightening the turn.
3)  I did not use flaps. With a Spit the flaps are all or nothing. I thought they were intended for landing not maneuvering.

4)  I had taken off with half tanks but had flown awhile. I don't know what his fuel load was.

Heya badhorse,
The following linked thread by Badboy, goes back several years, but it will at least show you what I mean regarding using a sustained turn rate verses using the tightest turn you are able to squeeze out....

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,164617.0.html

the best sustained turnrate/speed for the Spitfire Mk VIII is 533 ft/radius @ roughly 24 dps ( degrees per second ) doing roughly 155 mph at Sealevel ( using the Game version we had back in November of 2005......

hope this helps

[TequilaChaser]

turning tighter will slow down the degrees per second it takes to get around the turn as well as the speed you are able to hold.......you might be able to turn tighter, but it is going to take you longer to complete the turn...

also, yes it is not advisable to use flaps in the Spitfire planes, but when one is in a match up against the same type of plane and you are down in the weeds in a slow speed knife fight, it is adviseable to use those flaps at certian "needed" times during the fight...... it could be the "turn the tables" move of the fight if one uses flaps and the other does not.......

I am not an avid spitfire player/flyer in the game.... some of the  AH RAF squads or maybe "The FEW" might hop on here and give you some more tips with the spitfire


hope this helps

[AWwrgwy]

Throttle?

At least on those "impossible" reverses where someone is 800 yards in front of you and suddenly they've turned around and are heading back.

Throttle control is more important than you think versus balls-to-the-wall WEP on all the time.

Also, flat turn or a little up and down? Trading altitude for a tighter radius maybe by pulling up a bit in the turn then diving back down?

Try to get into the same situation and film it and watch what he is doing at your leisure.

I've had many an "Ah ha!" moment that way.


wrongway