Magic Flaps!!

[VAMPIRE 2?]

Aerodynamics is extremely complex, this is something you'll have to keep in mind. Here's an interesting discussion on the wings of the P51.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,296622.15.html

Of course, the P51 is one of the more discussed aircraft due to its seeming lack of performance compared to post war propaganda.

very detailed and informative, but I gather this is mostly about clean airflow and wing drag, versus other types of wings. I can't find information in the thread regarding flap performance or 51 particular alt performance  (unless it fell under wing loading ... if that is the 51's alt issue.)

[JUGgler]

I thank you for that excelent lesson,  My bigest failure in flight IMO, is getting my opponent to fly on MY terms.  like you said I'm to soft.   funny, I think it's a physiological thing cause I'm the same way in real life. I get "defensive- mechanisms" activating when people get tough or intimidating. some of you should have a full understand of what this means, I think it falls under "rhetoric"

Vampire I will list a few names here but by no means will it include "ALL" the good ones


Grizz, Kappa, Krup, JUG, Drbone, SeRaider, Dedalos, 2Bighorn, Sunsfan, Wmaker, Rud, 0lDemon, Batfink, Levi,
Perdweeb, Dodger, Lippy, soulyss, Delirium, on and on, waaaaay to many to mention But we all have one thing in common


        WE FLY TO WIN!!

I would say the LARGE majority of players fly " NOT TO LOSE" !!     There is a HUGE difference to how both styles approach the fight!


That was lesson #7  <S>



JUGgler

[VAMPIRE 2?]

Vampire I will list a few names here but by no means will it include "ALL" the good ones


Grizz, Kappa, Krup, JUG, Drbone, SeRaider, Dedalos, 2Bighorn, Sunsfan, Wmaker, Rud, 0lDemon, Batfink, Levi,
Perdweeb, Dodger, Lippy, soulyss, Delirium, on and on, waaaaay to many to mention But we all have one thing in common


        WE FLY TO WIN!!

I would say the LARGE majority of players fly " NOT TO LOSE" !!     There is a HUGE difference to how both styles approach the fight!




That was lesson #7  <S>



JUGgler

How can this be taught?

I would like to expand on this lesson and practice with it for it may help me in real life also !!        

I will ask you every time I see you then...  to avoid this annoyance I will be patient and await your offer to 1V1      

[JUGgler]

Jugler we need to hook up in the DA bud.  I had a tight fight with a Muppet 47M in a pony the other day.  Your comments make me want to try that combination in a bit more controlled environment.  I was trying something a bit different and your rudder comments triggered some thoughts. 

Find me in the MA and we will go play!


anytime!


JUGgler

[VAMPIRE 2?]

^ I reposted in your response ^   

[VAMPIRE 2?]

"defensive mechanisms" in AH consist of running, slow merge, extra high alt, not saddling up but overshooting, "extending" when 1v1 or 2. the list is long and probably could make another post on it lol

[JUGgler]

How can this be taught?

I would like to expand on this lesson and practice with it for it may help me in real life also !!        

I will ask you every time I see you then...  to avoid this annoyance I will be patient and await your offer to 1V1      

I'm absolutely sure if you ask any of these folks if you can ride in their plane once in awhile, they will be more than happy to allow it. Then you can see for yourself and compare how they approach a situation to how you would approach it. Tagging along as baggage can be very helpfull indeed!



JUGgler

[VAMPIRE 2?]

I'm absolutely sure if you ask any of these folks if you can ride in their plane once in awhile, they will be more than happy to allow it. Then you can see for yourself and compare how they approach a situation to how you would approach it. Tagging along as baggage can be very helpfull indeed!



JUGgler

NOTED  will do,

[VAMPIRE 2?]

anyone have the alt statistics on the p-51D and B ???

[THRASH99]

anyone have the alt statistics on the p-51D and B ???

I would probably have to say about 30K

[VAMPIRE 2?]

I would probably have to say about 30K

any documentation? speed?

[SectorNine50]

P-51B:


P-51D:

[THRASH99]

It does not do 500 on the deck.  It does not have 4 x 20mms.  It will not outclimb a K4.  It will not out turn a zeke.  It will not out loop a P-38.  It will not fly 550 at 20k.  

Other than that, nothing.  

It does do 500 on the deck if you come out of a dive, only for about 4-5 seconds, it use to have 4 20s, it might not be able to out climb K4, but other 109s it has a chance. Now on the loop part, what speed? which model 38? which model P-51? You are starting to forget that flaps make a difference in turning fights and/or getting the angle of attack on your opponent. Now at low speed, a 38 will outturn a pony by far, at high speed, a 38 stands no chance at turning with a mustang. If a 38 and pony are both going fast (over 350), the 51 will only have to drop 1 notch of flaps to loop with a 38, at low speed, a pony might have a tough time looping with the 38. The only thing that I know can fly over 500, is the 262 and 163 over 20K, mostly the 163.  

[Motherland]

but other 109s it has a chance.

The Bf 109F-4 has a higher sustained climb rate than the P51D at all altitudes, by a surprisingly significant margin. There's even a band at which the Bf 109E-4 has a higher climb rate.

[THRASH99]

The Bf 109F-4 has a higher sustained climb rate than the P51D at all altitudes, by a surprisingly significant margin. There's even a band at which the Bf 109E-4 has a higher climb rate.

Well... like I said, it depends on speed. The talk about G models is varied and can be argued in another person's own opinion against a P-51, it won't always be the same.