What is the role for the B-29? (Yes, another B-29 thread)

[RufusLeaking]

First, thanks are in order to HTC (and Greebo for the artwork) for the beautiful B-29. 

Like many, I encountered one for the first time last night. One newbie pass from dead six in an Fw-190A-8 (4x20mm) and the single ship was on fire. I went on to get shot down, but still earned 13+ perks for the single kill.

Which go me to thinking, what is the place for the B-29 in Aces High as we know it?

It is very expensive in perks. A formation will cost 500+ perks. With 3000 bomber perks, I am still suffering from sticker shock.

It is a juicy target.  If I recall, dying yields ¼ perks, if I had landed, I would have gotten 52 points for one easy kill. A formation would result in 156+ perk points!

It is costly to the bomber pilot and lucrative for the interceptor.

Then there are the bomb load options.  40 x 500 would be enough for 13 hangars, in a three ship, salvo three bombs. Or, and someone will try this, a single bomb on 40 towns.

So, what is the role? The bomb load can take out any target, if the plane can get there. High altitude will be a defense. Mass escorts are an option, but, at a certain point, a large number of escorts could just jabo horde a target.

At the high perk price, those that would low level a formation of buffs will not be able to afford it very often. Base or town ack, or even puffy ack, will probably light these beast up handily.

What is the niche for the lovely new B-29?

[fullmetalbullet]

i think IMO it to make players be very cautious and to make them think more about planning your bomb run in a B-29.

[GNucks]

I'm glad it's in the game but I'm afraid it doesn't have a niche in the MA. A well run 29 mission takes too long (and with 300+ perks on the line and ENY 2, I'm going to take my time).

The thing about having the lowest ENY in the game (iirc) is even the Pony can bank come good perks killing a 29 or two. And reports right now indicate that her engines are made of kerosene-soked paper mache. These things are just big flying targets handing out perks to anyone willing to follow them.

I see them being relegated to score potatos* and strat runs at orbit altitude and Special Events (I'm looking forward to scheduled "Come at me!" 29 missions). As far the the tactical sense of base taking in Aces High is concerned, I don't think it has a place.

EDIT
*Funny, HTC. I tried typing the insulting term referring to a "working woman" after "score" (the word that rhymes with the word I tried to type) and you gave me "potato". Anyway, you know what I mean.

[Yarbles]

What is the niche for the lovely new B-29?

To stop people lusting after it by gving it to people and then we can have the Gloucester Meteor.

[Lusche]

It is very expensive in perks. A formation will cost 500+ perks. With 3000 bomber perks, I am still suffering from sticker shock.

It is a juicy target.  If I recall, dying yields ¼ perks, if I had landed, I would have gotten 52 points for one easy kill. A formation would result in 156+ perk points!

I can't follow your perk calculations. The basic price is 100 perks, so a formation taking means spending 300 perks. 500 perks would mean a very high perk modifier against your country, and you are quickly running into the ENY 2 limit there.
Second, I also don't know how you get to "yield 1/4 perks". The amount of perks a plane costs has no influence on the oerks you gain by shooting it down. It's always an ENY thing. As the B-29 has ENY 2, a kill of one in a Ta-152 is worth 10/2=5 perks, which are then subject to the usual modifiers



That aside  , I have asked myself the same question. There is a combination of factors that make it yet difficult to me to find a precise answer. Maybe it will end up being just for the score players.The big bomb loadouts give you very high damage hit % and millions of points for score.
But for practical purposes (not speaking of fun even), other buffs seem to be better right now. It burns easily and is very expensive, so altitude is the natural answer to this. This takes time and fuel. With the 40x500lbs option, you may actually run out of fuel long before you run out of bombs.

[GNucks]

To stop people lusting after it by gving it to people and then we can have the Gloucester Meteor.

*Drool...*

[moot]

Sounds like Rufus is thinking of partial perk loss if you ditch rather than die.

[RufusLeaking]

I can't follow your perk calculations. The basic price is 100 perks, so a formation taking means spending 300 perks. 500 perks would mean a very high perk modifier against your country, and you are quickly running into the ENY 2 limit there.
Second, I also don't know how you get to "yield 1/4 perks". The amount of perks a plane costs has no influence on the oerks you gain by shooting it down. It's always an ENY thing. As the B-29 has ENY 2, a kill of one in a Ta-152 is worth 10/2=5 perks, which are then subject to the usual modifiers

On the perk cost, you are correct.  I was going for memory.

On the perk yeild, I am referring to the amount of perks earned for killing a B-29.  Last niight, I got 13.xx for a sinlge kill of a B-29. The one quarter modifier is for having died on that sortie.

[Lusche]

Sounds like Rufus is thinking of partial perk loss if you ditch rather than die.

Ahhh yes. That makes sense. Gotta edit my post before someone notice my brainfart  

On the perk yeild, I am referring to the amount of perks earned for killing a B-29.  Last niight, I got 13.xx for a sinlge kill of a B-29. The one quarter modifier is for having died on that sortie.

Ooops... too late  

[moot]

Well that's not how it works Rufus.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Aces-High-Features/aces-high-help-perk-points.html

Although the page omits ditch and disco modifier, as you can see there's no fraction penalty on kill points for dying.  Even better, just go and do a one kill sortie, noting perk multiplier when you took off (IIRC sortie start time is what all perk modifiers are set to), and the math should be pretty simple.

[RufusLeaking]

Well that's not how it works Rufus.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Aces-High-Features/aces-high-help-perk-points.html

Although the page omits ditch and disco modifier, as you can see there's no fraction penalty on kill points for dying.  Even better, just go and do a one kill sortie, noting perk multiplier when you took off (IIRC sortie start time is what all perk modifiers are set to), and the math should be pretty simple.

OK. There are death multipliers listed on the AH Help score page:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Aces-High-Features/aces-high-help-scoring.html

I was assuming these applie to perks as well.

[moot]

Those modifiers are for perk prices, not perks scored.

[Hap]

I'll take a run at the question because the 29 appeals very much to me for several reasons.  It helps kick the imagination into high gear; without which, the game's appeal diminishes for me.So either hunting them or flying them the fun factor increases.

I don't think there will any problem finding squads and individual players for whom imagination/fun acts upon them in a similar manner.  They will enjoy the 29's introduction either as a buff pilot or as a Ta-152 M-Jug hunter.

As far as function goes, that is "now that we have it, how shall we use it?"  That'll be left up to players and squads.  I'm not excited about the Me-163 v B-29 contest because we all know how that one will end.  Would I take part in a massive HQ run nonetheless, probably so.  Just for the fun of it.  Infrequently at that.

Strategic factories surely could be a part of the action, but then again, proximity to 163's is again a bit neutralizer.  I've not made a list of the 163 bases on a given map to take note of their range.  I've just assumed factories/hq are well in range.  Maybe on some, factories aren't in 163 range until they are pulled back as they can be on some maps.  That'll be fun for me to figure out.

Then there's town/hangars targets which would hold much appeal especially as strategic efforts support tactical moves on a front line.  29's will cover a sector in a bit less than 5 mins.  So once they are up and a sector out, having them w/in a 5 min call would be too much fun, and maybe even turn out to be effective.  Do I think that's how things will go given their cost, not frequently.  But it's the infrequent times that work out well that I enjoy.  And even if all the plans go south, the guys you're flying with at the time can make all the difference.

So I guess their "role" will be limited only by imagination and cooperation within squads and countries whether you be the hunter or the hunted.  And of course, one's ability and perks.  The objection to the 29's is that we can bomb effectively anything in the game with what we already have, so why have a B29?  Of course, if we applied "well we can already do that with what we have" argument to the entire plane set then not many could be said to be "indispensable" except goons or m3's. 

Since this is day 2 of the 29's introduction, there's no assessing anything.  My guess is 6 months from now, the 29's introduction will have the effect of raising the ceiling of air operations in AH when they are flown well and smart.  Those who fly them will enjoy the challenge of planning an operation and carrying it off successfully, and those who hunt them will enjoy the challenge of thwarting the attempt.

Get a few in the air working together with some squads escorting, could be real enjoyment.  Oh, there is one result upon which I think we can agree, we will see more guys in bombers attempting to earn perks.  A good thing says I when they are flown smart.  I've never enjoyed flying buffs in a "gamey" fashion even though the results from doing so can be very effective when it comes to captures, kills, damage etc.

Should be fun having them in AH.

[Daubie]

First, thanks are in order to HTC (and Greebo for the artwork) for the beautiful B-29.  

Like many, I encountered one for the first time last night. One newbie pass from dead six in an Fw-190A-8 (4x20mm) and the single ship was on fire. I went on to get shot down, but still earned 13+ perks for the single kill.

Which go me to thinking, what is the place for the B-29 in Aces High as we know it?

It is very expensive in perks. A formation will cost 500+ perks. With 3000 bomber perks, I am still suffering from sticker shock.

It is a juicy target.  If I recall, dying yields ¼ perks, if I had landed, I would have gotten 52 points for one easy kill. A formation would result in 156+ perk points!

It is costly to the bomber pilot and lucrative for the interceptor.

Then there are the bomb load options.  40 x 500 would be enough for 13 hangars, in a three ship, salvo three bombs. Or, and someone will try this, a single bomb on 40 towns.

So, what is the role? The bomb load can take out any target, if the plane can get there. High altitude will be a defense. Mass escorts are an option, but, at a certain point, a large number of escorts could just jabo horde a target.

At the high perk price, those that would low level a formation of buffs will not be able to afford it very often. Base or town ack, or even puffy ack, will probably light these beast up handily.

What is the niche for the lovely new B-29?

Fire-bombing Japan at night!

Read a biography of General LeMay

The A-bomb got a lot of bad publicity, but what about all the Japanese cities destroyed in fire-storms?

Any realistic Aces High bombing sorties, unprotected by escort, should be 30,000 feet plus, if you want to land your kills.  I wonder how high a B29 in this game can fly.  B17 will do 37,000 feet no problem at all.

I never got a P-39 into a flat spin in this game, as Yeager found out and his 1st bailout, in advanced training.  P-39s were notorious for flat spins.

I did get a La-7 into a flat spin, upside down the other night.

I like Aces High, but as to real life realism?  Better read some biographies and talk to the old timers, which few are left.  The history books, some, if not most, distort what really happened.

Did the B-29 serve in Europe? Therefore, if not, a FW is rather ridiculous.

Like Okinawa where my wife's uncle was a Marine there at the battle of Sugar-Loaf; the whole point was to secure the island as an air base.  The Marines own Okinawa.  If the USA wants to give it back, they should get the Marines that fought there, their permission, 1st!

[GNucks]

<snip>

What are you talking about? Wrong thread by mistake, perhaps?