So. who is really to blame?

[CAP1]

The following is a facebook post from the mother of one of my son's friends.

<QUOTE>     debating on whether to call n complain or not~ <name> often rushes in the morning, and just makes the bus.... but he says that he was along side the bus this morning approaching the door, and the bus drove away i am really ticked, he could have been hurt. isn't the driver supposed to be aware of all sides of his bus? and <name> carries a flashlight!  <QUOTE>

Understand that after speaking to the mother, I found out that the child was in no immediate danger.


Is this indicative of a sadly growing trend in our society where we blame everyone we possibly can for our own failures?  Kind of like not paying the gas bill and getting pissed when the supplier shuts off the service in the middle of a hot shower? or... not paying the ISP bill and getting pissed at THEM when they pull your plug in the middle of a sortie?

Whose fault is this?

Is there any right to be pissed?

Would this incident have even occurred if the kid was at the bus stop on time everyday?

Please discuss...

yea it is. no one is at fault for their own problems anymore. it's always someone elses faultr........

[Plawranc]

look at me for example.

I am friendly, polite and respond to authority.

Why?

cause when I was a kid I got the shiit kicked out of me if I wasn't.

[CAP1]

look at me for example.

I am friendly, polite and respond to authority.

Why?

cause when I was a kid I got the shiit kicked out of me if I wasn't.

i had the benefit of my grandparent playing mom and dad.

[Penguin]

It's about discipline. It has nothing to do with the amount of sleep you did or didn't get. If you can't drag your butt out of bed in the morning to catch the school bus or go to work then your just making excuses.  Try taking responsibility for your own actions. There's a reason why you and your peers are all so tired. It's because you don't go to sleep early enough.

Baloney- try going without sleep for a while, your body will shut down

Baloney- Right, right, I bet you slept like a baby during puberty.
 
Why on earth should every single student in the school suffer?  It makes no sense, if not one student muster the 'discipline', then the demands placed are unreasonable.  A better example- imagine getting up at 4:00 AM for work, one would barely be conscious.  We teens face the same problem, and there is no good reason to have the system this way.  Our sleep patterns can and will change once we finish puberty, but not a moment sooner.

I'd like to be able to conform to the demands of the system, but its requirements are superhuman.  I can't dream of dissecting iguanas tied around my neck while waking up in the middle of the night! 

-Penguin 

[canacka]

Baloney- try going without sleep for a while, your body will shut down

Baloney- Right, right, I bet you slept like a baby during puberty.
  
Why on earth should every single student in the school suffer?  It makes no sense, if not one student muster the 'discipline', then the demands placed are unreasonable.  A better example- imagine getting up at 4:00 AM for work, one would barely be conscious.  We teens face the same problem, and there is no good reason to have the system this way.  Our sleep patterns can and will change once we finish puberty, but not a moment sooner.

I'd like to be able to conform to the demands of the system, but its requirements are superhuman.  I can't dream of dissecting iguanas tied around my neck while waking up in the middle of the night!  

-Penguin  

Us adults have the fortunate advantage of having experience on this issue.  When it's time to get up, it's time to get up.  If being that tired is causing that many problems as you say, go to bed earlier.  Nothing superhuman about getting on with a few hours sleep.  What it appears to me is that your tired of hearing the "Back in my day" stories.  But maybe us "Back in my day" guys actually have something there, stop and listen.  

And if I had to be up for work at 4am, I'd be in bed no later then 8-9 the night before.  Responsibilty is not what you demand schedules to be, it's how you deal with schedules to make sure your prepared.

[SIK1]

Baloney- try going without sleep for a while, your body will shut down

Baloney- Right, right, I bet you slept like a baby during puberty.
 
Why on earth should every single student in the school suffer?  It makes no sense, if not one student muster the 'discipline', then the demands placed are unreasonable.  A better example- imagine getting up at 4:00 AM for work, one would barely be conscious.  We teens face the same problem, and there is no good reason to have the system this way.  Our sleep patterns can and will change once we finish puberty, but not a moment sooner.

I'd like to be able to conform to the demands of the system, but its requirements are superhuman.  I can't dream of dissecting iguanas tied around my neck while waking up in the middle of the night! 

-Penguin 

I don't have to imagine getting up at 4:00 am for work I've done it. Then drive two hours to get to the job site work ten hours then the two hour drive home. Try that for thirty days straight then you might understand what tired is all about.
Just an fyi when I was in high school I had to be out of the house no later than 6:00 am to catch the bus. My sister got up every morning at 4:30 so she could do her girlie girl foo foo stuff, so don't tell me how difficult it is to get up on time because your in puberty.
Keep making excuses. You'll go far in life.

[dedalos]

You'll go far in life.

Almost as far as some of the posters    Never seen so match perfection in my life.  You guys are awesome.  No one has ever been late in their life and the ones that did were punished by death 

You are missing the point.  It is the kids fault for being late.  It is the parents fault for allowing it.  However, it is the parents responsibility to take care of it.  Not some fat guy driving a bus.  He can drive away all he wants as long as he does not create a danger to the children.  So the real question here is was the kid in any potential danger or is the mother over reacting.  The rest is really irrelevant. 

BTW, I am 41 so I guess I was brought up the "right" way also    Hitting a kid only shows your inability to deal with the situation.  Keep tooting your horns but anyone that has to hit an 6,8 or 10 year old to get his point across is a loser and a coward in my eyes.  You have lost the war.

[Melvin]

 

Back in my day, I wouldn't sleep at all during puberty. I'd sneak out, take a car and go find some trim to sneak into.

Catch a cat nap during study hall or English class, and then sleep in on Sunday.

If I was caught (it happened), I was punished severely. However, little Melvin would eventually take command and I'd be back on the prowl.

These days, the un-spoken agreement between my family and our friends with kids is that the nearest adult has the authority to lay the smack down if need be. I was a very lucky young idiot. No need for my kids to press it.

[Westy]

100% spot on dedalos.


"if your late the Xbox will be gone for a week, he wasn't late"

WHAT? You didn't beat the crap out of him?

Seriously. It can be as simple as that. but hit a kid and you're
nothing but a bully with an iq of 10 (at best)

[Penguin]

I don't have to imagine getting up at 4:00 am for work I've done it. Then drive two hours to get to the job site work ten hours then the two hour drive home. Try that for thirty days straight then you might understand what tired is all about.
Just an fyi when I was in high school I had to be out of the house no later than 6:00 am to catch the bus. My sister got up every morning at 4:30 so she could do her girlie girl foo foo stuff, so don't tell me how difficult it is to get up on time because your in puberty.
Keep making excuses. You'll go far in life.

Exactly my point, is there any reason for it to be this way?  You guys are missing the point, and in fact proving mine.  There is no reason for us to get up at 6:00, 5:00, or even 4:00 in the morning to go to school.  I don't know about your town, but in mine, meets run as a late as 19:00, and that leaves us barely any time to do the trivial stuff like eat and sleep.

To simplify matters, answer this question-

Is there any good reason to exacerbate the sleep problems of kids going through puberty, and if so, what is it?

-Penguin

(NOTE: No "back in my day I went to school butt naked in the snow uphill both ways stories", and do not pretend to have been a saint, if you still do, go see the Pope)

[canacka]

I've never said I was a saint, I've been late and tired before.  But it was my fault, not someone elses.  If having a meet that late is too hard then your taking on too much you can't handle.  Know your limits, and you'll be better for it!  Like I said, I've made those mistakes which is why I know the answer on how to deal with it. 

[Masherbrum]

Just blame me Messy.

[dedalos]

I've never said I was a saint, I've been late and tired before.  But it was my fault, not someone elses.  If having a meet that late is too hard then your taking on too much you can't handle.  Know your limits, and you'll be better for it!  Like I said, I've made those mistakes which is why I know the answer on how to deal with it. 

  This is getting funnier.  So now we are going to blame kids for trying too hard or being involved in too many things?  Yeah, lets punish them for that too.  You are right.  What he should do is sit on his arse and smoke some weed all day long.  He will never be late again 

Here is an example for the clueless.  Our math teacher in college used to give us minimum 50 problems for homework.  That on top of the computer science classes and all the useless electives that we must take so the school can get paid.  You bet I was tired and late a lot.  I am just glad I did not have to get run over by a bus so I would start behaving since I was committing the crime of trying instead of sleeping     

[canacka]

This is getting funnier.  So now we are going to blame kids for trying too hard or being involved in too many things?  Yeah, lets punish them for that too.  You are right.  What he should do is sit on his arse and smoke some weed all day long.  He will never be late again  

Here is an example for the clueless.  Our math teacher in college used to give us minimum 50 problems for homework.  That on top of the computer science classes and all the useless electives that we must take so the school can get paid.  You bet I was tired and late a lot.  I am just glad I did not have to get run over by a bus so I would start behaving since I was committing the crime of trying instead of sleeping    

Wow, I better be more careful when posting I guess.  I don't know what I told penguin that's getting you so upset but that's no reason to come after me.  What did I say that was so wrong?  Was it maybe taking responsibilty or something?  Where did I say he might as well smoke weed or something?  What I was responding to had nothing to do with the OP, so maybe I shouldn't have added to going off on a tangent but really, come on, is your reactions necessary?  So what your saying is that it is the schools fault for him being tired.  

If he is having trouble juggling extra activities, then yes he needs to slow down and focus on what he's there for.  Does it suck? Yes it does.  But you are putting words and ideas out there that have nothing to do with what I said.  Calm down a little bit and re-read what I said and maybe you'll see it in the way I intended.

[CAP1]

Baloney- try going without sleep for a while, your body will shut down

Baloney- Right, right, I bet you slept like a baby during puberty.
 
Why on earth should every single student in the school suffer?  It makes no sense, if not one student muster the 'discipline', then the demands placed are unreasonable.  A better example- imagine getting up at 4:00 AM for work, one would barely be conscious.  We teens face the same problem, and there is no good reason to have the system this way.  Our sleep patterns can and will change once we finish puberty, but not a moment sooner.

I'd like to be able to conform to the demands of the system, but its requirements are superhuman.  I can't dream of dissecting iguanas tied around my neck while waking up in the middle of the night! 

-Penguin 

i run transportation at mcguire(for cap) during the airshows there.

 the first year i did it, i got there at 9pm thursday night. from then till i came home at 10pm sunday night i had 8 hours of sleep total. i was still up at 430am getting things going. one of those days i was up earlier, getting a cessna ready, as we had to launch an SAR.