So. who is really to blame?

[VonMessa]

It's ok.

Nevermind.

Screw self-discipline.

We shall from this point forward ignore all the trappings of civilization and humanity and shall henceforth proceed to let our instinctual, animal side govern our daily lives.

The kid was never in danger.  The bus did not stop because he was not there.  The kids was pissed that he got left behind and, as kids are wont to do, exaggerated to facts.

The bus driver was not disciplining anyone.  He was only doing his job, which was driving his daily route, on-time.

Feel free to sleep, eat, fornicate and relieve yourselves where and whenever the mood strikes you.

Self-discipline is overrated and archaic.

Please forgive me for ever suggesting such a thing.

That is all.

Carry on.
 

[CAP1]

if we went back to the op..the kid missed the bus.

 in my case, i was 2 miles from the school. i'd have been made to walk. lemme rephrase that....since i was late a LOT, i WAS made to walk.

 if i had a kid, he'd be going to the same school i did....thus, would suffer the same fate as i did should he miss the bus. i'd also limit his electronics for a bit(i never had anything more than a tv and a record player when i was a kid)

[Penguin]

It's ok.

Nevermind.

Screw self-discipline.

We shall from this point forward ignore all the trappings of civilization and humanity and shall henceforth proceed to let our instinctual, animal side govern our daily lives.

The kid was never in danger.  The bus did not stop because he was not there.  The kids was pissed that he got left behind and, as kids are wont to do, exaggerated to facts.

The bus driver was not disciplining anyone.  He was only doing his job, which was driving his daily route, on-time.

Feel free to sleep, eat, fornicate and relieve yourselves where and whenever the mood strikes you.

Self-discipline is overrated and archaic.

Please forgive me for ever suggesting such a thing.

That is all.

Carry on.
 

You seem to have a lack of knowledge of the grey area between Spartan living and anarchy.  Not getting up at 6:20 does not result in an overthrow of western civilization.  Honestly, sir, you seem to be the uncivilized one with your fits of hysteria.

-Penguin

[dedalos]

Wow, I better be more careful when posting I guess.  I don't know what I told penguin that's getting you so upset but that's no reason to come after me.  What did I say that was so wrong?  Was it maybe taking responsibilty or something?  Where did I say he might as well smoke weed or something?  What I was responding to had nothing to do with the OP, so maybe I shouldn't have added to going off on a tangent but really, come on, is your reactions necessary?  So what your saying is that it is the schools fault for him being tired.  

If he is having trouble juggling extra activities, then yes he needs to slow down and focus on what he's there for.  Does it suck? Yes it does.  But you are putting words and ideas out there that have nothing to do with what I said.  Calm down a little bit and re-read what I said and maybe you'll see it in the way I intended.

Heh, and I offered a way for the kid not to be tired in the morning since it seems to be such an important matter to all of us here.  Weed is better than a fat guy running you over with his bus  

[dedalos]

if we went back to the op..the kid missed the bus.

 in my case, i was 2 miles from the school. i'd have been made to walk. lemme rephrase that....since i was late a LOT, i WAS made to walk.

 if i had a kid, he'd be going to the same school i did....thus, would suffer the same fate as i did should he miss the bus. i'd also limit his electronics for a bit(i never had anything more than a tv and a record player when i was a kid)

Yep.  You as a parent would have decided what the consequences should be. 

[dedalos]

It's ok.

Nevermind.

Screw self-discipline.

We shall from this point forward ignore all the trappings of civilization and humanity and shall henceforth proceed to let our instinctual, animal side govern our daily lives.

The kid was never in danger.  The bus did not stop because he was not there.  The kids was pissed that he got left behind and, as kids are wont to do, exaggerated to facts.

The bus driver was not disciplining anyone.  He was only doing his job, which was driving his daily route, on-time.

Feel free to sleep, eat, fornicate and relieve yourselves where and whenever the mood strikes you.

Self-discipline is overrated and archaic.

Please forgive me for ever suggesting such a thing.

That is all.

Carry on.
 

I forgot.  You were there and saw what happened.  Thank you for clearing this up for us.

[CAP1]

Yep.  You as a parent would have decided what the consequences should be. 

exactly. this day and age i'm pretty sure though, that some other parent would decide to stick their nose in my business.........

[dedalos]

exactly. this day and age i'm pretty sure though, that some other parent would decide to stick their nose in my business.........

I am marking the date and time.  We agree 

[SIK1]

This is getting funnier.  So now we are going to blame kids for trying too hard or being involved in too many things?  Yeah, lets punish them for that too.  You are right.  What he should do is sit on his arse and smoke some weed all day long.  He will never be late again  

Here is an example for the clueless.  Our math teacher in college used to give us minimum 50 problems for homework.  That on top of the computer science classes and all the useless electives that we must take so the school can get paid.  You bet I was tired and late a lot.  I am just glad I did not have to get run over by a bus so I would start behaving since I was committing the crime of trying instead of sleeping    

  this is getting funnier. No one suggested that "What he should do is sit on his arse and smoke some weed all day long."  Only that if he is so tired that it results in him hallucinating then he should probably modify his schedule so he can get more sleep.

I never said that I've never been late. When I was late though it was usually nobody's fault, but my own.

I know about being tired I've worked long hard hours, gone to school etc. At times I worked a full time job as well as carried a full load in college. You do what you have to do depending on how bad you want it.  

Again it's about discipline.

Exactly my point, is there any reason for it to be this way?  You guys are missing the point, and in fact proving mine.  There is no reason for us to get up at 6:00, 5:00, or even 4:00 in the morning to go to school.  I don't know about your town, but in mine, meets run as a late as 19:00, and that leaves us barely any time to do the trivial stuff like eat and sleep.

To simplify matters, answer this question-

Is there any good reason to exacerbate the sleep problems of kids going through puberty, and if so, what is it?

-Penguin

(NOTE: No "back in my day I went to school butt naked in the snow uphill both ways stories", and do not pretend to have been a saint, if you still do, go see the Pope)

See he's just fishing for an excuse, any excuse so that he doesn't have to try so hard.

[VonMessa]

You seem to have a lack of knowledge of the grey area between Spartan living and anarchy.  Not getting up at 6:20 does not result in an overthrow of western civilization.  Honestly, sir, you seem to be the uncivilized one with your fits of hysteria.

-Penguin

I apologize if my wry humor does not translate well into written text.

Hysteria would hardly be the way to describe it.

Disgust in the apathetic path that most of the world seems to be travelling would be more like it.  The situation I provided is a prime example.

Lets blame everyone else for our failures.  Perish the thought of taking responsibility for our own actions or, dare I say it, learnfrom our mistakes.

Baloney- try going without sleep for a while, your body will shut down

I have.  Uncle Sam called it Ranger school.  I don't recall my body ever shutting down, but I was extremely tired and awfully hungry for a while.  I think everyone in the class got a stick in the eye at some point while sleep marching, but none of us died


Baloney- Right, right, I bet you slept like a baby during puberty.

Nobody does, in my experience.  Changing the time frame in which you attend school isn't going to change this fact


  
Why on earth should every single student in the school suffer?  It makes no sense, if not one student muster the 'discipline', then the demands placed are unreasonable.  A better example- imagine getting up at 4:00 AM for work, one would barely be conscious.  We teens face the same problem, and there is no good reason to have the system this way.  Our sleep patterns can and will change once we finish puberty, but not a moment sooner.

I wake at 4-4:30 every morning and I wholly conscious and functioning.  I cannot imagine that I am the only one in the world.  Your sleep pattern can and will change but it has no bearing on puberty.  Puberty may affect the amount of hours that you need to sleep to feel refreshed but the pattern of when you retire for the evening and rise in the morning can be changed and established at anytime, as soon as you make a conscious effort and discipline yourself to change them.  


I'd like to be able to conform to the demands of the system, but its requirements are superhuman.  I can't dream of dissecting iguanas tied around my neck while waking up in the middle of the night!  

Rather than ever entertaining the notion that something as amazing as the human body could adapt to a newcircadian rhythm, you play the "its puberty and I can't change it" card.  Your iguana dreams are no more a product of your so-called sleep deprivation than are your wet dreams.

-Penguin  

[CAP1]

I am marking the date and time.  We agree 

$%%##$%$%

THIS CANNOT BE!!!!!!!!

 

[VonMessa]

I forgot.  You were there and saw what happened.  Thank you for clearing this up for us.

Nope.

I just spoke to the mother this morning and he (the kid) admitted that he (again, as kids are wont to do), stretched the facts so that it didn't look like he was dragging his bellybutton again and missed the bus.  He was ,as was the mother (not surprising where he got the notion from), trying to deflect his failure to be punctual onto someone else, rather than own up to his own mistakes.

All cleared up.  No need to thank me, just throw money.

 

[dedalos]

$%%##$%$%

THIS CANNOT BE!!!!!!!!

 

So, whose fault is it that we agreed?  I blame our parents 

[Reaper90]

Baloney- try going without sleep for a while, your body will shut down

Having a family member that survived Ranger Indoctrination and Ranger School, he'd tell you the amount of time before you "shut down" from lack of sleep is somewhere between 60 to 72 hours awake.... according to hius experiences, once you made it past about 24 hours awake, staying awake and alert was somewhat easy.... you just start to go "crazy" at about 72 hours, hallucinate, etc.

Get up at 4am for work? Pfffft. Alarm goes off here at 4:00 am every weekday morning. Cry me a river. 

Bottom line is we're talking about an issue here that is 100% a matter of discipline and personal responsibility, nothing more, nothing less.

[CAP1]

So, whose fault is it that we agreed?  I blame our parents 

 i hafta blame my grand parents.

 never knew my dad....and mom never re-married. she had two jobs for most of her life to support my brother and i. that's something else it seems is changing....single parents expect the state(us) to help them raise their kids.

 mom worked 2 jobs, and our grand parents raised us.


 it was funny. in high school, at a parent/teacher meeting. it happened to be moms night off...so she came. till then, it had only been my grandmom that came......they called home to see where mom was, because they thought my mom was my older sister.    and yes....she was very young looking.