Author Topic: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman  (Read 3133 times)

Offline CAP1

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2011, 03:29:39 PM »
Jet week I believe should explain the spike!



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Offline CAP1

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2011, 03:34:57 PM »
Just asking for an honest assessment.  No icons won't drive me away - I do just as well with or without them. And to be honest my AvA stats would exceed my MA stats if you turned them on. If anything, no-icons give *you* an advantage over me. I'll allow you your crutch.  :aok

But...  looking at the numbers leads one to ask whether it has actually been better for AvA or not.

Are you saying that the AvA will never go back to icons?  Of course, you can't say that.  What will it take to get them turned back on - AvA becoming a ghost town again? Or admit that it might be an experiment that didn't quite pan out?

It's obvious to me there's a very small, exclusive group of people who *prefer* no-icons... which only reinforces the perception of AvA being a clique-ish place that the avergae player has no input in, despite the claim the AvA is made for and run by the players.

And again, *I* have no power or influence in the AvA settings and I'll either stick around or leave  - a *personal* choice, right?  Right? Just like *you* have the preference to turn off icons if you choose, for the "immersion" factor and all. My immersion factor is the plane matchups, but then I fly any and everything, not limiting myself to one or two ride, but again, that's a personal choice, right?

I'm asking for is an assessment of the claims I'm seeing about the AvA being healthy and growing because of no-icon setting... and the subjective opinions of a few people don't seem to jibe with the actual nbrs/trends I'm seeing presented for 2010.

my ava stats, even before i hooked up trackir, never matched my mw stats. but then in mw, i had a "crutch". it was that big red "shoot here" sign over the bad guys airplane. i don't have that "crutch" in the ava, although i did have a few GREAT 3-1's, the most recent of which was with rammey, hoey, and vultchy. i think someone else jumped in at one point, but drano(who was otw to help me) took him out. he also augered rigfht behind that one.


 i for one don't want you, tc, or anyone that likes to fight to leave. just don't worry about the settings. come in, have fun, and kick our asses. if you'd be so kind as to teach some of us schmucks something here and there, we'd definitely appreciate it too.  :aok
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Offline Shifty

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2011, 03:36:06 PM »
For me personally it's the aircraft matchups I'm here for. I can take or leave the no enemy icons. In fact I prefered the old limited enemy icons of the past.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 03:40:55 PM by Shifty »

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Offline CAP1

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2011, 03:42:19 PM »
For me personally it's the aircraft matchups I'm here for. I can take or leave the no enemy icons. In fact I prefered the old limited enemy icons of the past.

fully agree on the matchups. i like the fact that i'm kind of being forced to fly aircraft that i may never have flown. same for fighting against em. i've fought aircraft in here that i've never fought against in the mw arena.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2011, 03:54:11 PM »
no offense shane but...you're fishing

situation is this...ava has had ups and downs depending on the setup, other activities around the ah community...etc...
before the switch to no enemy icons...ava was a veritable ghost town...it's been up and down but the number of regulars is on the rise...and if the words of oldman, jaeger and the other long time staffers isn't enough for you, then nothing will convince you...personally i don't give a rats patootie whether you're convinced or not, you're just another toon pile-it.

fact is, the no enemy icons brought about some new excitement...not to mention a lot of arguments public and private...as long as it took to turn the ava into a ghost town, it's taking longer to build it back up...not because of no enemy icons, but because of the negative views people formed due to the type of poop you're spreading...there is now a team of people building terrains specifically for the ava, never existed before...the development group has new people with fresh ideas and we all try to anticipate what will work and what won't...how best to use the terrains that are available until new terrains are introduced...it's a slow process

yes there is some elitist mentality...and it's well deserved...some of us have and are continuing to spend a lot of time to make the ava a place where players can go to get away from the main arena b.s. and experience a bit more challenging environment where score and having your name appear in the text buffer doesn't mean a thing...to have someone like yourself who is overly obsessed with no enemy icons come along and try to urinate in the pond, doesn't go over very well...you won't have anything to do with whether the setting fails or succeeds in the long run...accept it and move on.
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Offline jimson

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2011, 03:55:40 PM »
This graph does not show everything.

I remember the time period and what happened. Everyone who was there can remember that once the no enemy icons were put in there was a spike in the arena attendance.

I distinctly remember this being an exciting time for the community as we were getting some very good numbers, and a lot of positive feedback from folks that very much enjoyed something different.

Then the WW1 arena came.

I distinctly remember the AvA people groaning about the timing and fearing we would lose the momentum we had and it did seem that that is what happened.

Once momentum has been interrupted it's difficult to recapture.

I reject that the arena took a hit because of the setting change.

I am absolutely sure that we would have taken a similar hit if the icons had never been changed.

Offline jimson

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2011, 04:07:12 PM »
What one should really do is go and take a look at the forum posts in early March 2010.

You will see the excitement and favorable responses that convinced even those who were initially against the idea to make it a standard setting.

In any case no minds will be changed stats or no stats, pages of favorable views or not, but perhaps one can get a feeling for what prompted the change whether you agree with it or not.

Offline captain1ma

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2011, 04:13:46 PM »
Jet week I believe should explain the spike!



JUGgler

he's right it was jet week.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2011, 05:16:54 PM »
....
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:23:50 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2011, 05:19:03 PM »
btw.........
did I mention that I don't care if it is "no enemy icons" or "with enemy icons".........

just shut up and go fly :D


TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Lusche

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2011, 05:33:13 PM »
Ok Ladies & Gentlemen, sorry, I'm a bit late to this thread  ;)

Right now I have not the time to answer in detail to every post in this thread, but let me explain some general things about the numbers I presented.

On the method:
The number of players (and their names) I have simply taken from the plane stats page, going through each plane and gathering all names. This gives me all pilot ID'S that had killed or been killed at least once during a tour. A player who only jumped into an empty arena, did fly a uneventful sortie and never was seen again is not included.

Problems with that data specific to AvA:
There are two reasons why I didn't bother with any further analysis and did not present additional conclusions/opions of mine, and none of them is because I do not have any interest in this arena as a player.

The first one: lack of data consistency. On the past there had been repeating "problems" with the scoring and stats recording. We had occasional glitches on some tours meaning that data wasn't recorded entirely. In some tours, score had been disabled deliberately. As a non-AvA player, I'm not always aware of those issues, and identifying all of them in retrospect is very difficult. So I saw the data I presented in my main stats thread more like giving a very general assessment for AvA activity in the bigger multi-arena context, mainly to show how "dominant" the LW arena is compared to the special interest ones.

Th second one: Even if I'd assume the gathered data is consistent and complete for the period presented, it's very difficult to draw any simple & direct conclusions from it. More like any regular MA, both game settings (for example ack strength, icon settings) as well as game setup (map, planeset) are constantly varying ind happen in different combination. Some setups/maps are very much more popular than others. And in an arena as small as this one, with a small core of very dedicated players having a much greater share in overall activity even personal circumstanced can have some noticeable effects on kills & played hours for the arena in toto.

All those factors combined make it very difficult (at least for me) to trace apparent changes in numbers/activity back to any single change in settings.  In other words: I have a hard time "proving" anything here, so I do not try  :D

It's a different thing with the three "regular" mains, which are much more stable in settings as well as population, much more reliable in terms of data consistency and are being monitored by me not only by data scrounging or reading forum talk, but by playing there and observing things.



And a private word beyond the stats talk: I have seen (though often only from the outside) many ebbs & flows in AvA activity over the years. Some settings had been greeted with great enthusiasm, resulted in great numbers and participation for a while... and then the numbers were falling again. There may be better & worse setting, but I don't think there is any setting for this arena which really is "it".
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:41:36 PM by Lusche »
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Offline jimson

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2011, 05:39:54 PM »
It's obvious to me there's a very small, exclusive group of people who *prefer* no-icons... which only reinforces the perception of AvA being a clique-ish place that the avergae player has no input in, despite the claim the AvA is made for and run by the players.

It's time to put up or shut up.

Prove that a small minority of newcomer radicals ran over both staff and the majority wishes of the AvA regulars or it didn't happen.

I'll start.

All staff members who were and remain opposed to the current icon setting and were bowled over by a small minority please post here.

I was not on staff at the time, neither were NRaVen, Shifty or Ranger.

You can gather for yourself who the remaining staffers were, and decide whether or not the majority were old school CT people or cliquish radicals.

You are basing the statement that the average player has no input on the fact that what you want is not being capitulated to.

The burden of proof is on you to show that what has been done is against the wishes of the people who frequent the arena

So do it.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:45:34 PM by jimson »

Offline ImADot

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2011, 05:48:38 PM »
It's time to put up or shut up.

I vote "shut up".  This thread is not providing the community any great service.










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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2011, 05:51:21 PM »
Jim,
what you ask for someone to show proof of can not be done........ only a small minority of the AvsA players even read / post to these boards, just like the rest of the AH arenas and SEA events, etc.......

so it will always be the views of the minority verse the majority...... now it is easy to say that the majority of the people posting in the AvsA forum ( which is actually an over alll minority of all the people who play in the AvsA ) might well indeed be for "no enemy icons".......

but that is not fair to say or point out either....... no way to show proof of any true facts here........ hence is the same reason Lusche ( Snailman ) does not monitor / play in or keep data on the AvsA......

now, everyone can continue to stand their ground in their beliefs..... but that is as far as any of us will ever get, unless one of us is chosen to one day become a staff member and change the way things are, but right now the Staff or some Staff members has already posted that there never will be a change with the icon settings... either like it or leave.... that is the ultimatum given, is it not?

edit: what I honestly do not understand, is that a compromise was never offered for both camps, why could the AvsA Staff not split up the setups 50/50 with limited icons / no icons ? how hard would that have been to offer a choice for Everyone? andnot just be onesided about the issue.......???


TC
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 05:56:28 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2011, 05:57:48 PM »
btw,
I don't care either way, no enemy icons or limited enemy icons..... I still have the same amount of fun regardless....

come have fun in the AvsA <S>

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC