AvA "stats" 2010 - for Oldman

[jimson]

It is wrong to say that their will never be a change in the icon settings.

It is also wrong to say that the change was made for the wishes of a minority clique rather than for what people thought would be good for the arena.

Does any one else see how insulting it is to insinuate that the change was made for any other reason than it was thought that it would help the arena by contributing to a different environment from the others?

The staff does take input from the regular players, but how has it been shown that a majority of players would prefer a full icon setting?

TC you are correct, it can't be proven either way so how can it be proven that we are wrong?

[TequilaChaser]

It is wrong to say that their will never be a change in the icon settings.

It is also wrong to say that the change was made for the wishes of a minority clique rather than for what people thought would be good for the arena.

Does any one else see how insulting it is to insinuate that the change was made for any other reason than it was thought that it would help the arena by contributing to a different environment from the others?

 

Jim, I am not wanting to argue, so I will take this to PM's if that is ok with you


I only posted what I have seen on these boards written by others, guess I should have quoted those people instead of just typing my last reply out..

so it does not look like I am making those claims

The staff does take input from the regular players, but how has it been shown that a majority of players would prefer a full icon setting?

 

how has it been show that a majority of the players would prefer no enemy icons? where did the poll or vote take place? to come to that conclusion

[Shifty]

edit: what I honestly do not understand, is that a compromise was never offered for both camps, why could the AvsA Staff not split up the setups 50/50 with limited icons / no icons ? how hard would that have been to offer a choice for Everyone? andnot just be onesided about the issue.......???
TC

Do you have links where staff members are saying the icons will never change so take it or leave it?

While on the subject of choices for everyone... If the AvA has to give everyone the choices they want then people that want every airplane available on every setup should be catered to as well. Not to mention those that want a three country war they should get their wish too. How one sided of the staff not to consider their wants all these years.   Since you've mounted your steed and  are determined to slay this windmill err dragon... Did you know the FSO does things a certain way and are pretty set up on it as well? You might want to go tell them unfair it is that people only get one life on their events each Friday night. Why can't they give people unlimited lives I'm tired of getting killed and being done after one mishun. Go get em TC and straighten them out!   Plus I think it would be a good idea to start training people new to AH2 to get accustomed to no enemy icons. Since you're on AH2 Training Staff I think it would be fair of you to turn the icons off in the TA half the time. That way maybe more people will be attracted to the AVA.

Seriously everybody relax it's graphs. It's not a 10 mile square meteor heading towards your city. I believe most people flying in the arena have been having fun have they not? Especially Shane.

[jimson]

TC, I agree that the absolute "It will never be changed" was wrong.

how has it been show that a majority of the players would prefer no enemy icons? where did the poll or vote take place? to come to that conclusion

We got a good reaction when it was first tried as an experiment, it seemed to create a lot of interest and maybe we are all crazy but it seemed to help build a regular base of players.

I don't want to argue either and I will let it go



Come enjoy the AvA for the planesets, settings or whatever you find about it you like.

We are not elitists, all are welcome.

<S> all

[TequilaChaser]

give me a few hours to go sift and I will post em for you Shifty if you wish, Sir....

as for the FSO - that is SEA , it is not a 24/7 open arena to the public, so it is like comparing Apples & oranges.....

as for the Training Arena - HTC will not allow that unless it is a specific class being held at a scheduled time, and I would not be qualifyed to give such a class..... might need to ask the expert guy on that one  

off to gather my research edit: <----scratch that

edit: ok I will not bother with gathering the posts then...... but just to put this out there for everyone......

this no icons/limited icons : talk-debate-discussion-fueding-fussing has been going on for well over a year now....it dies out but then it comes back......

 if everyone was to go back to around November of 2009 and read through all the threads, and specifically read those that involve the no icons/limited icons  debate...... you might just be surprised or maybe even appauled at all the different things that were posted/said....all be it most of it was because of this heated discussion and people getting hot under the collar.... but the fueding and arguing has been a hot bed of white coals...


I just want to have fun, just like everyone else....

[TequilaChaser]

btw Shifty,
that was a good idea / suggestion you thought up there, about using the TA for "no enemy Icons Training"....

I will see if someone capable might be willing to offer such a clinic............. could help people in FSO just as much as the AvsA players...

 

TC

[Shifty]

as for the FSO - that is SEA , it is not a 24/7 open arena to the public, so it is like comparing Apples & oranges.....

Apples and Oranges really? It's an arena run by a player staff just like the AVA. The FSO staff determines it's operating parameters. The AVA just happens to be 24/7. So the AVA staff is not free to choose the parameters the area operates under? If Saxman comes in and demands the F4U be in every setup or he won't fly here the staff needs to honor that for him ? If Rox comes in wanting a three country all aircraft and vehicles enabled horde war the staff needs to cater to that as well just so he'll fly here? You keep saying it doesn't matter to you but you're clamped down on it like a pit bull.Maybe you should approach HTC and ask and I'm being serious. Nobody on this staff has the power some of you seem to think. Actually it's a bunch of guys doing their best to make a fun arena for the more history minded. It's not some cartel all smoking cigars around a big table out to ruin TC's Shane's or anybody elses fun. Seriously contact HTC with your concerns if they think the staff is out of bounds every staff member here would be more than happy to comply with your wishes I'm sure. Especially me I prefer the limited icons of old and would gladly fly them again. I was one of the first to admit the no enemy icons seemed to appeal deeply to those that tried it. So I'm for what's popular and keeping guys flying in the arena, and no icons is what they like. So seriously you Shane or anybody else who feels this strongly about it should consider touching base with HTC on the subject. Charts debates and time spent arguing would better be spent flying one way or the other.
<S>

[TequilaChaser]

Have A Good Evening, Shifty, Sir

[Shifty]

U2 Sir.

<S>

[Shane]

@jimson: I agree the no-icon was presented in the hopes it would spur more activity, and from the BBS activity it appears so, still, it's the numbers that aren't quite matching up to that (*thx lusche for the input about stats). How much of the missing data can be attributed to shutting off scores, I wouldn't have the slightest idea.

I do recall seeing a suggestion and concern about a possible slack-off after the "novelty wore off from one of those threads and that the no-icon should be run often, but not all the time. The big March thread supports that as you see several people say it was a fun "event/experience." Some of them stuck around, most didn't as the graph clearly indicates.  

The graph shows pilot #'s only and the trend I think is fairly obvious. I'm trying to understand why and the most coincidential events I see that lead to the overall downward trend could be attributed to the WW1 arena (which has better nbrs and icons enabled(?)) and the instituition of no-icons.

Now the trend is apparently rising (and may continue to do so), but the pilot count is still below the January level. Assessment = net loss for the year in terms of pilots, even tho the arena might have picked up (and lost) the dedicated core at the heart of any small community.

The key fun factor is the activity when each one of us is most likely to log in and play, namely early evening, with a big variable being the current setup, as evidenced by Jet Week (were icons off?), and to a lesser extent, the GV thingy you guys ran in Feb/Mar?  

I just think the Staff needs to be open to further tweaking - nothing is ever set in stone, and we all would like to see the same thing, a higher populated arena.

Propaganda of any sort should always be subject to scrunity and debunking.  

So perhaps consider the occasional limited icons on and see what trend that might create?

Like I said, either way I'll be around, until I'm not.

I do like TC's idea about a poll... I think the Staff should run one now and then for a variety of issues, even if only as a pulse taking.

<mutters about rarely seeing an Italian setup that features the early USAAF workhorses, 38, 47, 51 (and you could toss in the naval with f4u and wild/hellcats/fm2) vs a wider choice of german (f-g6 maybe?) and italian stuff (both), plus the attack/bombers on each side...>

On that note is there any archived data about the setups that have been run over time?
 

[Shifty]

I do like TC's idea about a poll... I think the Staff should run one now and then for a variety of issues, even if only as a pulse taking.

A poll would be a great idea, if people that actually fly or would fly if the icons were set to their liking would post.
The only problem I see with a poll is people coming taking the poll and never setting foot in the AVA regardless.

[Oldman731]

I just think the Staff needs to be open to further tweaking - nothing is ever set in stone, and we all would like to see the same thing, a higher populated arena.

I believe every staff member agrees with you on these three points.

As to the poll:  My own opinion is that of Henrik Ibsen:  the majority is always wrong.  Polls got us the B-29, as an example.  That said, I am only one voice, and the tools to do polls exist here.

- oldman

[jimson]

I just think the Staff needs to be open to further tweaking - nothing is ever set in stone, and we all would like to see the same thing, a higher populated arena.

I like this post.

Jet week was indeed run with no enemy icons.

I don't believe that WW1 has better numbers than the AvA, but on its debut week it certainly drained all the arenas.  It particulary affected the AvA as it seemed to come right at a time that we were appealing to a lot of people but not before we really had them hooked.

Of course this is all my opinion, there is no way to know what "might have been."

I believe that no settings can be set in stone, things evolve in directions we can't foresee.

I and I believe all staff will never stand in the way of whats best for the arena, but we won't always agree on what that is.

Every update, version, has the potential to bring new tools and game play options.

I see you have a particular set up you'd like to see. We can definitely consider that.

One caveat is that for the most part we would like it to be loosely based on a historical reality or at least somewhat plausible.

Even Jet week was originally run as a Korean war tribute. It was quite a stretch, but considering the parity between the Mig-15 and F-86, Me 262 for both wasn't a totally horrible substitute.

All of the setups have been posted in the AvA forum, but you would play hell trying to sift them all out, perhaps a consolidated thread archiving those for the general public is a good idea.

I will make that a project.

[USRanger]

I just logged into the AvA & banned all of you.  Now I can fly in peace.

[Puma44]

How about a couple of weeks with no icons on either side and killshooter off?  Someone always brings up the issue of one sided no icons. Why not give it a try with both off?   

Seems the same issue always comes up about some not liking no icons in the AvA when there are all of the other arenas with full up icons 24/7.  It would make one almost think that some are having a gun held on them to fly in the AvA with no icons when it's a free choice to use any arena at will.