Author Topic: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz  (Read 4127 times)

Offline BnZs

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So, I've noticed a bit of contention about this stuff.

First of all, I think the fact that the AvA used to be a sort of dueling arena with historical plane match-ups is something that hurt, not helped its popularity.

Generally, the two best "dueling planes" (Spit vs. 109, 38 vs. 109, Yak vs. 109) would be taken up for individual co-alt (and ludicrously low) contests and the rest (P-40, Jug, Stang, 190) would be left in the hangar most of the time. Hmmmm...sorry, that does not resemble the war for the most part and frankly is abit humdrum. Not to mention the fact that one side generally has a dueling plane that is at least slightly better than the other.

Now that we actually have numbers, we are actually having some smallish-melees. That brings up any number of issues which I care to address at the moment...

HOing-Its something I tend to avoid in the MA. With big red signs giving exact distances and all, it just doesn't make too much sense for all the Typhs/C-Hogs/Spits/Jugs and other uber-armed death stars to shoot for the face. However, some of the match-ups and conditions we've had in AvA lately, it begins to make perfect sense to attack from head-on. A rugged, heavily armed P-39 or Wildcat vs. a fragile and vastly more maneuverable A6M2, with *no* little red sign telling exact distances for example. And it was a favored tactic against the Japanese planes. I dunno about you, but when you have icons switched off to make things more "realistic", and then have a prejudice against historical tactics...why, that is 24 karat, glow-in-the-dark hypocrisy IMHO.

Picking-I'd avoid gratuitous kill-stealing, but other than that, I'd say shoot a bandit off a friendly's six anytime you can. Other bandits can come in at any time, and with no icons you *may or may not* see them coming. Its really quite simple...if you avoid taking an easy kill on a bandit maneuvering with a friendly, and 2 more bandits come in, you quite possibly have a 3v2 going OR a 2vYou going, whereas if you had terminated the bandit in a most expeditious manner, you would more likely be able to make it a 2v2 with both of you free to give the bandits your full attention. Once again, to try and set up an arena to be as Historical as possible and then frown on wingman tactics strikes me has hypocritical.

If you wish to "duel" in the AvA...then by all means go to an isolated corner of the map, and announce to all that you are 1v1ing and wish to be left alone. Or even better, hit the DA.

Ganging-This should not be much of a problem, as folks tend to be scrupulous about balancing sides in the AvA. In the rare instances that it is, it is usually the fault of the country whose people are failing to wing up and meet the other country as a group.

In particularly, recently a lot of folks got hot at "Loose Deuce" squad for keeping their 109s high and fast and working as a team in the North Africa map. I admit it was frustrating to encounter, and when I caught one or another of those boys on equal terms, I taught them a flying lesson. And Shane by himself on the deck is more dangerous than the whole squad. BUT, and this is a most important point, I CAN not and WILL not criticize them for using tactics that match EXACTLY with what I've read about the Germans doing in that theater of operations, in what is a HISTORICALLY BASED arena. I advised my countrymen to actually try working as a team themselves, and in a pinch, to tilt the noses of their Spitfires and P-40s up and try to smack the less heavily armed 109s and Macchis on the nose. See my paragraph above on Hoing. Don't get mad, get even.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 10:58:14 AM by BnZs »
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline gyrene81

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 11:18:29 AM »


Thank you BnZs...I love it  :aok
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline M0nkey_Man

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2011, 02:30:58 PM »
i try to find someone to follow on my team so I can help them if they need it
Kommando Nowotny "Tip of the dull butter knife"
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Offline dhyran

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2011, 03:21:54 AM »
......
In particularly, recently a lot of folks got hot at "Loose Deuce" squad for keeping their 109s high and fast and working as a team in the North Africa map. I admit it was frustrating to encounter, and when I caught one or another of those boys on equal terms, I taught them a flying lesson. And Shane by himself on the deck is more dangerous than the whole squad. BUT, and this is a most important point, I CAN not and WILL not criticize them for using tactics that match EXACTLY with what I've read about the Germans doing in that theater of operations, in what is a HISTORICALLY BASED arena. I advised my countrymen to actually try working as a team themselves, and in a pinch, to tilt the noses of their Spitfires and P-40s up and try to smack the less heavily armed 109s and Macchis on the nose. See my paragraph above on Hoing. Don't get mad, get even.

well,

take a closer look at the score, we can work it out who kills who, but i don't going to discuss such things, because it cant be discussed.

When you want to play in a historical way, you gents better learn to fly and fight as an element/group/squadron becasue in history and today it was never a 1 vs 1. Air combat is allways tactical fight. Its many vs many

we let number speaking for themself, we often encounter the AvA when the MA changing, we would love to fly it much more often, but sadly there are no players

Bnzs, join the SDL league!!! Bring in your mates, and fight there in same birds no alt advantage,merge 10k, 5 rounds to fight!
We LD lost no match last season and we ended up undefeated as season 1 champions there. maybe now you can think it over
there you have equal terms, give it a try!
well, please focus on yourself, but don't blame others for their teamplay abilities! Real Teamplay, tactical fighting is much more harder to learn instead of fighting on your own. you have to be a great stick and you have to talk and fight at one time, give calls, call the brackets offensive defensive splits.....give it a try and you will see how much effort you have to spend



« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 04:21:59 AM by dhyran »

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline gyrene81

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2011, 04:21:03 AM »
dhryan...i don't think bnz's was putting your squad down for anything...and as far as i'm concerned, you and your squad are welcome in the ava any time...(even though you talk funny)  :D

sorry i missed seeing you guys in the arena


i for one enjoy the challenges and none of these toon heroes have any business putting you guys down for the tactics you use...at least you guys fight when the opportunity arises...this whole "1v1 knight in shining armor jousting" b.s. is for the social rejects...multiple opponents is much more invigorating.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline dhyran

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2011, 04:24:05 AM »
dhryan...i don't think bnz's was putting your squad down for anything...and as far as i'm concerned, you and your squad are welcome in the ava any time...(even though you talk funny)  :D

....

now plaese help me with that phrase :

Quote
And Shane by himself on the deck is more dangerous than the whole squad

even its just wrong, better start read the score guys, you can figure out who shot whom  :)
Well, as a i said, i am not going to discuss our teamplay
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 04:26:30 AM by dhyran »

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2011, 04:31:08 AM »
well, please focus on yourself, but don't blame others for their teamplay abilities!


dhyran,
your squad has done an awesome job in the SDL, and ya'll do good when flying squad ops in the AvsA

but when I am in the AvsA with maybe 1 or 2 at most on my side and when I log in, their is 3 or 4 on the opposite side.......I will ridicule those everytime that log in with such low numbers and team up 6 to 1 or 2  , 7 to 1 or 2......and throw a comment out at me like " Well, we are here to fly as a squad and fly squad tactics".....which caused the only other countrymen on my side to log, then soon did I log...so guess ya'll flew around as 7 all by yourself in formation.... ( well your squad members , excluding you, u wasnt there ) ( this happened about 3 weeks ago or so )

don't get me wrong, I truly admire your squads ability to work well together.. it is a thing of beauty..... but just the same.when nmbers are very low, it would be a most receptive gesture to split up and balance it out until more showed up....

and no dhyran, you was not logged in that evening, if you had of been I do not think it would of happened like it did....

look forward to flying with/against ya in the AvsA  :cheers:
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline gyrene81

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2011, 04:35:38 AM »
now plaese help me with that phrase :

which part? ...you talk funny?  :D ya, your english is uh...a little...uh ...  :uhoh ...i mean   :neener:
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline dhyran

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2011, 04:37:09 AM »
which part? ...you talk funny?  :D ya, your english is uh...a little...uh ...  :uhoh ...i mean   :neener:


yeah sorry, i am ill, under strong medicine, didn't sleep last night  :frown: :salute

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline dhyran

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 04:39:45 AM »
.....

don't get me wrong, I truly admire your squads ability to work well together.. it is a thing of beauty..... but just the same.when nmbers are very low, it would be a most receptive gesture to split up and balance it out until more showed up....


well, we alos split up the LD sometimes, but its just no fun for me shooting you own squadmates down ....

 :salute

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline gyrene81

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2011, 05:04:26 AM »
well, we alos split up the LD sometimes, but its just no fun for me shooting you own squadmates down ....

 :salute
i hope you feel better soon...no fun being ill

my squad has run into the same thing the few times i could talk them into joining me in the ava...it is most important to the rest of the people in the arena when the numbers are low...as you know, in ah, ego is a measure of one's manhood and a lot of these guys don't know how to put their egos aside and just enjoy different challenges...so they log off when a squad jumps in all on one side and the lone wolves end up being outnumbered on the opposing side...
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2011, 05:21:31 AM »
are you serious, gyrene?

egos? manhood?  6 to 1 ? 7 to 1?  in the AvsA......... why even attempt that challenge....... I don't consider myself a lonewolf, I will wing with just about anyone..... but I am not gonna try to be invigorated by going up against 5 or 6 or 7 others flying squad tactics and call it a challenge, that is a dumb founded fool to think that would be any fun at all,

I had a squadie on the other night and although it would have been 5 vs 2 if he stayed on the same side as I, we both agreed it would be better for the Arena if we went and fought on opposite sides with such low numbers.....

once others showed up , which took maybe 30 minutes, we were able to fly together.....

edit: when a person very politely asks a bunch in one squad to perhaps even up the sides, and is bluntly told "No, we are flying Squad Ops" .... gues that is a measure of peoples manhood
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:27:34 AM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline gyrene81

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2011, 05:36:33 AM »
yeah tc...i'm serious...i do it all the time...and once in a while i get lucky enough to rtb...of course it's more fun when sides are somewhat even but i don't sweat it either way.

last night i got shot down or augered more than 30 times, taking on fester...had a lot of fun...when the ak's were in the arena, i ended up with 4 or 5 on me at once...almost made it back to base with a couple of kills, but i was laughing so hard i couldn't do anything but fly straight...if i see 1 dot or 5+ dots, i jump in...but i'm weird like that


and yes, egos and manhood...or do you honestly think the whines that get posted on these boards are due to something besides someone's ego getting bruised in toonland?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:49:55 AM by gyrene81 »
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Chilli

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2011, 03:58:38 PM »
Just before another discussion bites the dust and I go and practice slingshots at  cartoon rats, may I ask a question about numbers?

It seems like the more the arena grows, the more we have differing opinions on what it should be.  The same can be said for the main arenas where HTC has complete control over settings and such.  As a member of the AvA Development Group (players who discuss goals and values) I can only say that I have seen these very same topics looked over and over, and always end up with the very same conclusion.

The AvA arena is here to provide historically inspired two sided action available 24 hours a day.  Beyond that, no one can regulate how each individual / or group of players decide to participate.  What the group has been successful with is providing a balance that should allow all types of players to share the arena.  Obviously, the larger the number of players, the larger the number of interests in playing styles, these players bring with them.

Here is the rub.  When you bring in balance, you often curve the ability of playing styles.  Otherwise the arena would simply be a mutation of a 2 sided Main Arena.  Fly what ever plane, from what ever base from what ever map (up to the max size map > 100 bases).  As it is now, and hopefully will continue to grow and yet remain true to its roots, the arena is setup to allow action to occur, regardless of the number of players that are logged in, and keep it confined to historical combatants (with a rare exception for "what if" scenarios). 

This means that you should be able to create / find dueling action, furball action, gv action, base capture action, bombing action, etc....... by announcing your intentions or simply doing your thing.   Your thing does not have to be my thing, but if doing your thing is what motivates you to log into the AvA arena, the development group had done its job. 

What I have seen in the Arena (much more important than what I have seen here on the BBS forum), is folks having fun, saluting one another, with the periodic disruptions because regular players are not accustomed to certain playing styles. 

New players come into the arena with no pre conceived expectations.  They want to get in the plane they want to fly and kick some butt.  If they are straight from the MA they might even look at the numbers and decide they want to be on the "winning" side.  Or maybe they didn't take the time to look at the numbers or the dar bar, and simply flew to where they perceived a fight to be.

The bottom line, if we are going to grow the community, it is the players that will have to adjust to the balancing act, not the Arena adjusting to the players (not to say tweaks should be off the table).   Otherwise, consistency will be out the window, complaints on the rise, and community on the decline.  It's a no brainer for me. :salute

LD and TC you are both equally welcome in the AvA, I am certain that you both do an excellent job of adjusting inside the arena.  I think that there will always be times that not all will be satisfied, with the results, but I often find that "the best fight / AH2 experience ever," comes right after a horrible run of bad experiences / cartoon deaths, explosions, collisions, pilot wounds, etc.......   

Please, I just ask that everyone that agrees that the arena is a good place, help to keep it that way.


Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: The Historical Arena and HOs, Picking, Ganging, and all that Jazz
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2011, 06:49:34 PM »
Chilli,
I don't know what the fuss is all about....
dhyran the LD and myself are just fine , I explained to him a particular event I had ran into and he explained to me his thoughts and we left it at that with no harsh words or name calling or anything.....

yes sir we I think we both ( LD and myself ) adjust when in the arena to fit our needs........ there is no problems or quarrels here

just saying  :salute

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC