Author Topic: Is this what Hitech wants?  (Read 24195 times)

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #195 on: March 01, 2011, 11:45:59 AM »
Personally I don't as long as I can find the next attack and defend there.

Offline JUGgler

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #196 on: March 01, 2011, 11:51:51 AM »
Let me ask you this...  Do you personally care whether any given base is taken?

NO! You are correct I could up elsewhere but there is no fight elsewhere, the fight is where the RED is and it is a beast that attracts more red, sucking any red from surounding areas. When you ask if I care what base is taken my 'quick knee jerk" reaction is NO, but when the "fight" is on for the base I am at "Well why else am I there"? if it is taken my fight is gone so as a byproduct I guess I am defending it to the last! So in a round about way I must care if the base "Iam at" is taken  :huh  

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #197 on: March 01, 2011, 12:10:01 PM »
Hmm and I always thought you were customers. I'm going to have to go look at that dictionary again.

HiTech

Without customers you have no business. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm an owner in a SaaS based company and at least to us it's very clear that the customers _are_ our business. If we lose them we don't have anything to stand on.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:14:11 PM by MrRiplEy[H] »
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Offline moot

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #198 on: March 01, 2011, 12:33:56 PM »
It reads to me like he meant it in a river-being-water sense. AKA you may be MrRipley now as yesterday, but the atoms that make you today aren't yesterday's.
The turnover thing isn't so much something he exploits, at the (unfortunate) expense of players, but more of an inevitability.  It's something you can't work around - every player (save a small minority) will eventually burn out or otherwise move on. Not building your business model around it means you go extinct sooner or later.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:36:08 PM by moot »
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Offline SectorNine50

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #199 on: March 01, 2011, 12:46:03 PM »
From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."

The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something.  Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority.  It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale.  The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.

HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #200 on: March 01, 2011, 01:02:00 PM »
It reads to me like he meant it in a river-being-water sense. AKA you may be MrRipley now as yesterday, but the atoms that make you today aren't yesterday's.
The turnover thing isn't so much something he exploits, at the (unfortunate) expense of players, but more of an inevitability.  It's something you can't work around - every player (save a small minority) will eventually burn out or otherwise move on. Not building your business model around it means you go extinct sooner or later.

I'm naturally not trying to tell Hitech how to run his company but in my opinnion an online game should be treated like an ecosystem. Each player has his reasons for subscribing and playing and their actions affect the fun of others not just themselves. If there are disruptive elements on the arena causing the fun element to suffer or disappear, like in an ecosystem they're at first compensated but if let loose, will damage it permanently.

To me, overly massive hordes are like locust storms that eat away the nourishment of the game. The game changes from a fun challenge to an act of futility and negative returns. One may think well it's just a field who cares - but as one sees the situation progress field by field it's clear that if nobody stops the mobbing mentality, the fields are soon reduced to the stage where the country ends up 'in the bucket' and vulched till arena resets.

I think changes to the game were made that made the situation before the 'war ends' less insane by allowing more fields to be left before reset and were absolutely brilliant. Back in the days when IIRC two fields were left in the end, gameplay just went down the toilet for the last hour or two. If those two hours happen to be your only available gametime you might aswell not log on.

So, as long as things have some sort of a balance the garden of players can flourish and grow. Again, IMHO.

Attrition could be used as an incentive to not horde up - instead of the ENY that follows directly player numbers, what if ENY would change dynamically so that the more low ENY planes you lose in a horde combined with number superiority, the less would be available for the next one. Meaning at first you have P51D etc. at will, make stupid horde runs and get 30 of them shot down in a short manner, you no longer can use them for some time. That would possibly make two things happen: A true positive return for defending succesfully as the enemy would be visibly hurt, even weakened, from deaths and on the other hand incentive for the attacking party to try and survive in their planes instead of blindly lawndarting in search of instant returns.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline waystin2

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #201 on: March 01, 2011, 01:10:13 PM »
NO! You are correct I could up elsewhere but there is no fight elsewhere, the fight is where the RED is and it is a beast that attracts more red, sucking any red from surounding areas. When you ask if I care what base is taken my 'quick knee jerk" reaction is NO, but when the "fight" is on for the base I am at "Well why else am I there"? if it is taken my fight is gone so as a byproduct I guess I am defending it to the last! So in a round about way I must care if the base "Iam at" is taken  :huh  

Anyone got a Bayer?




JUGgler

We are closer in what we enjoy in this game than you realize, just go about it in different ways.  I could care less about winning the war, but I want to win the fight I am at whether it is at a single base or a few sector region of the map.  The Pigs take bases to goad the red guys into showing up.  We are hybrid players in that we enjoy killing the red guys land, sea & air and will take base after base to get the red guys to show up.  You can call us Fur-grabbers!  LMAO  I appreciate your honest answer and you can see what I am driving at.  In the heat of the moment it does matter if they take the base from you.

 :salute

Way
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Offline JUGgler

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #202 on: March 01, 2011, 01:10:26 PM »
From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."

The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something.  Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority.  It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale.  The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.

HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.

Why would the majority complain about themselves?   :headscratch:

Anyway I am not complaining let alone about the horde, my focus is the VOOOLCH!  savy?   :salute



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Offline 1Boner

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #203 on: March 01, 2011, 01:19:09 PM »
From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."

The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something.  Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority.  It's an MMOG, there is going to be stuff happening online on a massive scale.  The horde will exist forever, might as well get used to it.

HTC might have a clue what he's doing, lets stop giving him tips on how to run his company.

YAHTZEE!! :aok

Thread over.
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #204 on: March 01, 2011, 01:22:07 PM »
YAHTZEE!! :aok

Thread over.

The minority may complain but a very large portion may be negatively affected and stay quiet, ever thought about that? Worst case scenario, people vote with their feet without uttering a word.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Getback

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #205 on: March 01, 2011, 01:26:33 PM »
Hmm and I always thought you were customers. I'm going to have to go look at that dictionary again.

HiTech

Paying customers, the best kind.

Oh, See Hoyle on card rules.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 01:33:50 PM by Getback »

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Offline mechanic

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #206 on: March 01, 2011, 01:27:28 PM »
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline 1Boner

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #207 on: March 01, 2011, 01:27:40 PM »
The minority may complain but a very large portion may be negatively affected and stay quiet, ever thought about that? Worst case scenario, people vote with their feet without uttering a word.

The "very large portion" of your statement is purely speculation.

It could also be said that a "very large portion" of people are quite happy with the game the way it is.

But that would also be speculation.

And I'm sure HTC is closely monitoring how many people "vote" with their feet.

If there was some sort of mass exodus going on he would be aware of it and react accordingly.
"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline RufusLeaking

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #208 on: March 01, 2011, 01:29:14 PM »
Well if you run out of idiot/noobs then you are just the "silly one" buzzing about a field with nothing to do...
This is the natural limit on horde size and vulching. Eventually, it gets boring being the 20th guy on some poor dumb ... gentleman trying to get off the runway. It is an individual ingame growth experience to get to this realization. Too deep? I was inspired by moot:
It reads to me like he meant it in a river-being-water sense. AKA you may be MrRipley now as yesterday, but the atoms that make you today aren't yesterday's.
Whoa. I'm flashing back to my college dorm room...
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Offline moot

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Re: Is this what Hitech wants?
« Reply #209 on: March 01, 2011, 01:32:25 PM »
From what I see, a very minority of the players complain about "the horde."

The only way to prevent the horde is by limiting something.  Since the minority are the only ones complaining, he would be limiting everyone for the minority.
Limiting something or encouraging its opposite. If you wait for complaints to fix something you're probably late.

Attrition could be used as an incentive to not horde up - instead of the ENY that follows directly player numbers, what if ENY would change dynamically so that the more low ENY planes you lose in a horde combined with number superiority, the less would be available for the next one. Meaning at first you have P51D etc. at will, make stupid horde runs and get 30 of them shot down in a short manner, you no longer can use them for some time. That would possibly make two things happen: A true positive return for defending succesfully as the enemy would be visibly hurt, even weakened, from deaths and on the other hand incentive for the attacking party to try and survive in their planes instead of blindly lawndarting in search of instant returns.
You'd have players paying for other players excesses.

I don't disagree that hordes are a bane of gameplay quality, but so far there hasn't been any good enough solutions.  IIRC hordes happen cause (other than gregariousness) players don't feel safe enough on their own - ie they're not capable enough at dogfighting.  The most natural solution is to get them good enough at it. IE teach/train them.  There's always a dozen trainers or so on hand, but evidently that's not enough.  Something like an automated training system where you practice specific tactical situations (e.g. make opponent overshoot, etc) against AI, ideally with a "difficulty" slider where the margin of error gets smaller proportionally to difficulty, and with all of these lessons somehow structured hierarchically you'd have a good formula that could be kept very streamlined. E.G. you just click a button or press a key to restart the lesson at any point you choose E.G. using similar tech to what's used to watch AHF movies: the training code would "rewind" or fast forward you to the states (position, speed, acceleration etc) you specified from some previous attempt.  A lot like the license trials in Gran Turismo, if you've played that.
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