Is this what Hitech wants?

[Ardy123]

Talking about fallacies you kinda argumented against your point 1 in point 3. Point 2 may only show that you have played countless hours and gained perks to burn again, people with 0.25 k/d have to spend 10 years to achieve any kind of buffer and that is only if they don't use them lol

You have to remember that the vast majority on MA get below 1 k/d ratios. They're the backbone of defence that can up a pony in a horde at will but will think twice about upping a perkie as the underdog.

The way I see it, the whole reward system is reverse of what it should be. The players who need perk planes the least get to use them. The players who can't cut the mustard even in the regular models are deprived of the higher performing planes. This creates further imbalance instead of harmonizing the field.

Perhaps the honor of getting to fly the P40B only should be the ultimate goal. Only the coolest kid on the track could achieve enough kills in it in order to keep the perk count (rank) low enough. What other dominance is there except to kill a noob in 262 with your mighty 202.

OTOH an arena full of 262s wouldn't be nice either. Hmmm.

I agree that the current reward system favors hordes. Also, I don't take on hordes in 262s only. Most of my horde busting flights are done in a 109 k4. A p51 would work better than a k4, given its better guns and better high speed dive handling.

[SectorNine50]

Your arguments amount to: give up and settle for whatever the teeming masses decide for you.

My thought was only that in this case like in many others, one could take advice from natures way of handling things. If a locust storm happens, it eats itself to death inevitably. If it didn't it would destroy all life on earth in a matter of months. Luckily the situation on MA is not THAT bad lol!

Not at all.  We combat it, we used to bring in logistic ships to constantly shield rep the industrial ship.  I actually have a kill in a mining barge on a cruiser that tried to "gank" me.  My drones attacked him when he attacked me, and the logistic ship kept me alive.  Needless to day, we humiliated them on the local channel.

Adapt and fight back.

[moot]

Not talking about EVE unless you can detail how the analogy is flawless...  Much simpler to stick to AH.

[SectorNine50]

Not talking about EVE unless you can detail how the analogy is flawless...  Much simpler to stick to AH.

Nothing is flawless.

The point is that these problems exist in every online game, and they stem from human nature.  These problems can be combated, it just seems people are too lazy to do so.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Nothing is flawless.

The point is that these problems exist in every online game, and they stem from human nature.  These problems can be combated, it just seems people are too lazy to do so.

Umm when you have to start to get un-lazy to combat 20 players horde 'contribution' I call that work not fun.

[Zoney]

Umm when you have to start to get un-lazy to combat 20 players horde 'contribution' I call that work not fun.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

You know, I really enjoy open ocean sailing and do it alot off the coast of San Diego.  You got no idea, if you have never sailed, how much work it is to get a 50 footer ready to go, keep her rigged and trimmed to go as fast as possible.  The work itself is a reward though and fun and then it leads to more fun (and more work).

Sitting at a computer yankin' on a joystick to be in the right place at the right time for a good defense or fight is hardly what I would call work.

Ripley, if you focus on the negative here, that is what you will see.

[moot]

Nothing is flawless.

Platonics.  Flawless analogy for the purpose of comparison doesn't necessarily mean integrally identical.

The point is that these problems exist in every online game, and they stem from human nature.  These problems can be combated, it just seems people are too lazy to do so.

And for all we know the analogy to EVE is apples and oranges for any possible reason, from game mechanics to the kind of people who play it.

You have to detail how EVE and AH are identical as far as these dynamics go.  It's much simpler to stick to AH. This is all greek:

we used to bring in logistic ships to constantly shield rep the industrial ship.  I actually have a kill in a mining barge on a cruiser that tried to "gank" me.  My drones attacked him when he attacked me, and the logistic ship kept me alive.

In fact simply saying "it's human nature" is insufficient.  There's some major differences in culture/attitude from one game population to another.

[SectorNine50]

Now you are nit picking.

The point was we figured out a way to combat the problem it on our end, and executed it.

"Adapt and fight back" should have summed that up nicely.

You have to detail how EVE and AH are identical as far as these dynamics go.  It's much simpler to stick to AH. This is all greek:In fact simply saying "it's human nature" is insufficient.  There's some major differences in culture/attitude from one game population to another.

Not really, the same "type" of people play all games (nice, mean, helpful, unhelpful, strategic, brutal, etc.).  The only difference are the interest points.  I started poking around the forums of EVE and when I looked really hard, there actually were people that complained about player tactics.

Difference is, people in EVE know this is human nature and laughed the complainers off the boards.  In fact, the game developers do nothing to stop it, in fact, they promote it!  Why?  Because it adds personality to the game.  Games that are too strict become tiresome and repetitive.

Umm when you have to start to get un-lazy to combat 20 players horde 'contribution' I call that work not fun.

Well, then don't combat it and go elsewhere.  But don't complain about it happening.

[mechanic]

In fact simply saying "it's human nature" is insufficient.  There's some major differences in culture/attitude from one game population to another.

Saying it is human nature is perfectly sufficient. Yes there are 'cultural' differences at the core of a game. For instance in AH we supposedly have furballers and toolshedders as our 'culture'. But that is only the core basis of this game. When you look at the whole player base human nature is very apparent in many, many forms. This evidence of human nature, in this case - path of least resitance - is apparent across all games. Smack talking and bravado being another couple of traits that fit human nature and span all forms of competitive interaction.

[The Fugitive]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

You know, I really enjoy open ocean sailing and do it alot off the coast of San Diego.  You got no idea, if you have never sailed, how much work it is to get a 50 footer ready to go, keep her rigged and trimmed to go as fast as possible.  The work itself is a reward though and fun and then it leads to more fun (and more work).

Sitting at a computer yankin' on a joystick to be in the right place at the right time for a good defense or fight is hardly what I would call work.

Ripley, if you focus on the negative here, that is what you will see.

Well if I was paying someone to get my boat ready to sail, and I had to then do all the work to get to have my fun, it would certainly take away from my fun. What if you go down to your slip, go through all the prep to get you sail boat ready for a cruise  and 20 guys decide to hold a little armada in the area of the slips. Telling you todays only for the little boats. Would you still have had "fun" getting your boat ready to go?

I'm paying to play a game using WWII style equipment and I'm being denied that opportunity. And before all you nit-pickers chime in, yes there are other avenues to play, but I choose NOT to use them, much like some only buff and some only GV.Analogies are all fine and dandy, but you must look at the issue from BOTH sides, far to many only look at it from their side believe any other side is unimportant.

Now you are nit picking.

The point was we figured out a way to combat the problem it on our end, and executed it.

"Adapt and fight back" should have summed that up nicely.

Well, then don't combat it and go elsewhere.  But don't complain about it happening.

I'm trying to play the "war game", that is what the game is all about now, not fighting. So how would you recommend defending against 20-30-50 people missions? My horde doesn't grab bases as fast as the other so I try to slow the others down.

We know upping from the attacked base is only good the first time, then the vulch light is lit.

Upping from a second base either gets you there too slow, or if you up a 262 in time to catch the tail end and maybe, just maybe a goon to prolong that "battle" (and I use that term VERY loosely).

The other option mention is "avoid"  

So, how would you slow the rolling steamroller?

[SectorNine50]

I'm trying to play the "war game", that is what the game is all about now, not fighting. So how would you recommend defending against 20-30-50 people missions? My horde doesn't grab bases as fast as the other so I try to slow the others down.

We know upping from the attacked base is only good the first time, then the vulch light is lit.

Upping from a second base either gets you there too slow, or if you up a 262 in time to catch the tail end and maybe, just maybe a goon to prolong that "battle" (and I use that term VERY loosely).

The other option mention is "avoid"  

So, how would you slow the rolling steamroller?

If you up those bombers one or two bases back, you are still in the air when the next base is taken...  That doesn't mean you cancel your mission.  Redirect to the base they just took.  Destroy those FH's.

This isn't that absurd or difficult, guys.

[Ardy123]

Fugitive,
these guys often take multiple trips because for example, they will crash into the ground on their bomb runs, etc... This means you can catch them with their pants down by attacking the base they are upping from, or vulch them as they are upping.

This only fails when they are upping from a CV. All I can say about that is that I think HTC allows the CVs come too close to the shore. I've seen cases where people can't even up, because the cv ack shoots the planes as they up off of the airfield.

[The Fugitive]

If you up those bombers one or two bases back, you are still in the air when the next base is taken...  That doesn't mean you cancel your mission.  Redirect to the base they just took.  Destroy those FH's.

This isn't that absurd or difficult, guys.

No the hordes I was working against Saturday. 5-8 minutes and they had the base, at least the 2 times I caught them.

Those hangers are already down. Remember these guys flatten everything. So I guess I could circle until they come back up, but why? They have no intentions of using this base they just took, they are off on the other side of the map sneaking up on another base. Of course I could fly around all night, everynight and porking ord all over the fronts. Jeee that sounds like fun!

[moot]

Now you are nit picking.

No. Refute the arguments or concede

The point was we figured out a way to combat the problem it on our end, and executed it.

I've never played EVE. I know nothing about it. For all I know there's some significant differences that make direct analogy invalid.  I said this already.

"Adapt and fight back" should have summed that up nicely.

Uncomprehensive, see above.  AH wise: how do you fight back a horde and what does this specific case say about the system as a whole, which is the level at which operates the topic "what to can/should be done about hordes".  "Adapt and fight back" is just platonics if you simply say it and never specify details.  Let's put it another way with a proper analogy: Engineering is the art of making what you want from what's available, at a profit.  How would you design a response to AH hordes?  The saliency of the engineering analogy is that in AH you only have so many resources.

Not really, the same "type" of people play all games (nice, mean, helpful, unhelpful, strategic, brutal, etc.).  The only difference are the interest points.

Your credibility just lawdarted.  You're either purposefully skewing or just haven't been around enough games.  AH is one of the more casual, friendly games.  Aside the superfluous real estater/furballer purse fights, there's nothing in AH that compares with some of the sheer rotten attitude prevalent in many games.  You don't know what you're talking about on this one.

Difference is, people in EVE know this is human nature.

Vague truism and stated as fact without evidence IE links to sufficient EVE forum posts, assuming that were enough rather than ACTUAL gameplay survey

  In fact, the game developers do nothing to stop it, why?  Because it adds personality to the game.

Again, one has to bother with going to EVE forum, surveying them, etc, before taking this statement as credible.

  Games that are too strict become tiresome and repetitive.

Show that homogeneous horde is less repetitive than balanced fights.

Saying it is human nature is perfectly sufficient. Yes there are 'cultural' differences at the core of a game. For instance in AH we supposedly have furballers and toolshedders as our 'culture'. But that is only the core basis of this game. When you look at the whole player base human nature is very apparent in many, many forms. This evidence of human nature, in this case - path of least resitance - is apparent across all games. Smack talking and bravado being another couple of traits that fit human nature and span all forms of competitive interaction.

inaccurate

[Ardy123]

No the hordes I was working against Saturday. 5-8 minutes and they had the base, at least the 2 times I caught them.

Thats rare, last night, we stopped them and that is what Vampires post was about in the BBS. It usually takes them several flights, unless everyone ignores them.