Author Topic: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)  (Read 1140 times)

Offline VansCrew1

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"Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« on: May 17, 2011, 12:10:56 PM »
So as may of you may know my granddad, the real VansCrew passed back in October. But some questions are leading to more questions. From all the paperwork and what ive found online. Something my granddad did that he never spoke of ws he was a CO-pilot on "Sack time" B17G #42-102544 on April 16th 1945. Mission # 109 for "Sack Time". Thats all ive been able to pull up on it so far. But what get's me, looking into it a little more "Sack Time" went down on mission 110 April 17th 1945( 2 peoples report this) another date was April 27th 1945. Regardless, it's something my grand dad took this to his grave for what ever reason. I was wondering if anyone has any more back ground on the 109th mission of sack time. There's actually pictures and info on this on the 303rd BombGroup site. Anyways guys any help or any new info would help me out. Im trying to put togher my granddad's WW2 History from him in flight school to him working on the regulus missile( with i have books on showing my granddad) To him on a Aircraft carrier helping bring over the first F86's to Korea. So ive got my hands full and this has me stump jumpin at the moment.

http://www.303rdbg.com/missionreports/361.pdf

If you go down to the Squd Roster's for that mission you will find:
B-17G #42-102544 Sack Time
P Hamm, Burwell J., 2Lt
CP Van Geyten, John J., F/O
NAV Brauchle, John G., F/O
BOM Pherson, Wilbert C., Jr., F/O
ENG Fischer, Herman W., Sgt
RO Arnold, Warren E., Sgt
BT Nicklas, Henry P., Cpl
TG Clem, Billy J., Cpl
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 12:36:11 PM by VansCrew1 »
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Offline JOACH1M

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 ( Need help)
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 12:14:47 PM »
If I remember right "sack time" was rammed over Germany.






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Offline VansCrew1

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 ( Need help)
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 12:20:06 PM »
If I remember right "sack time" was rammed over Germany.






     :salute


on the 303rd site sack time on mission is "MIA" for mission 110. And there's a story on there on how the flight crew was up all night because they wanted sacktime to overtake i think it was "Thunder bird" but thats a good start thanks Joach1m Im just tryint to look up my granddad's history.

<S> Every in advanced this has been a real emotional ride for me and i want to thank you all in advanced for any help you guys can provide
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Offline Shane

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 01:06:37 PM »
reading thru the pdf provides this about sack time... your grandfather wasn't onboard for some reason, and took command of his own b-17 for missions 363 and 364 (the final missions of the BG). Missing that flight, for whatever reason, probably had mixed emotions for your grandfather. He was probably close to some of sack time's crew?

<edit: looks like he was bumped from CP slot by another CP whose plane was down for maint. with the 427th>

As for the 109th mission, what more would you be looking for? They bombed the general area and everyone returned safe and sound. Then the following mission sack time was lost and your grandfather (who was not onboard any plane that mission) took command of his own crew for the final two missions of the war.

http://www.303rdbg.com/missionreports/362.pdf

#42-102544 Sack Time, 360BS,
piloted by 2Lt. Blaine E. Thomas,
was on its 110th mission without aborting and
was hit by flak north of Brux. The No. 2 engine was smoking and was feathered. Bombs
were dropped on the third bomb run and the target was crossed with the formation. It then
slipped off to the left and exploded in the air approximately three minutes after it started
descending. Six parachutes were seen. The first three came out together, then three a bit
later. One jump was delayed.

The fortress went down in the vicinity of Dresden, Germany.
The men in the rear of the B-17 went out the waist hatch. Sgt. Melvin C. Carlson jumped
first, followed by Sgts. Walter E. Smith and Luis L. Contreras. Other crewmen jumped
from the nose hatch. Sgt. Contreras landed separately from the rest of his crew, sought
shelter and was captured by angry civilians. He witnessed an unknown airman being shot
by the civilians, was beaten and abused and placed in a city jail for four days. After being
turned over to the German military, he was transported to an unknown prison camp, thence
to Prague, Czechoslovakia, to Berlin and to other points.

Almost his entire time as a POW
was spent walking or on crowded trips via truck and train with nine other airmen. He was
finally rescued by General Patton's Third Army troops. Other crewmen were captured near
Frieberg by German troops, who held them captive approximately three weeks. They were
turned over to American forces on 7 May 1945, transported to Camp Lucky Strike, and
then returned home to the U.S.A. on a Liberty ship. S/Sgt. Edward G. Eschinger and Sgt.
Carlson were killed and are buried at Ardennes American cemetery at Liege, Belgium.
They are believed to have been killed by civilians after a successful parachute landing. Lt.
Thomas, 2Lt. Max R. Bartholomew, F/O Joseph Bonanno, S/Sgt. Harry W. Haynes, Jr.,
and S/Sgt. Smith were also captured and became Prisoners of War.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 02:16:40 PM by Shane »
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 01:13:03 PM »
For every airframe lost there is an accompanying investigation.  We found out how my grandfather was killed (glider pilot), because of the airframe loss report.  There are companies that will charge you for a copy. 
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Offline VansCrew1

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 05:37:23 PM »
Shane,

Thank you for looking it over and getting some info i missed. Thank you for your time. And for anyone else that wants to look it over the more help the better

<S>
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Offline pervert

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 ( Need help)
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 06:01:27 PM »
If I remember right "sack time" was rammed over Germany.






     :salute


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOHRdvxEL3Q&feature=related

Play from 4:00 is this the same bomber?

EDIT: never mind its wrong bomber type, just remember hearing the name.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 06:21:55 PM by pervert »

Offline ozrocker

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 09:05:20 AM »
<S> Van, and  :salute for your Grandad and his service!
You can find a trove of info from Library of Congress,
USAF (and Air Corps).
I'm sure most of WW2 stuff is declassified already.
If needed, you can get material using the Freedom of Information act.
Also, try to see if any of Squadrons crews are alive and they could provide first-hand
knowledge of events.
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Offline VansCrew1

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 12:31:08 PM »
<S> Van, and  :salute for your Grandad and his service!
You can find a trove of info from Library of Congress,
USAF (and Air Corps).
I'm sure most of WW2 stuff is declassified already.
If needed, you can get material using the Freedom of Information act.
Also, try to see if any of Squadrons crews are alive and they could provide first-hand
knowledge of events.
Best Wishes!                                                                       <S> Oz
             

Thanks Oz <S> Good to see you still kickin around on AH sir. I actually found a book refured to as "the 8th AF bible" it's got tons of into on there. One of the more interesting things ive found was a report my granddad did after a mission saying how his B17 returned to base with 107 bullet holes in the plane with NO damage. The hunt goes on and im sure its going to take a long time for me to compose a whole story. But once anagn thanks for the help guys.

 :salute
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Offline lyric1

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Re: "Sack Time" Missions # 109 (Need help)
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 02:46:44 PM »
Not sure if you have seen this site or not Vans. A lot of knowledgeable people there that may be able to help.


http://forum.armyairforces.com/303rd-BG-Molesworth-f26.aspx