Me 410 bomb bay configurations

[Krusty]

That would be a totally arbitrary division, though. The A and B were identical in loadouts except one had 7mm fixed forward guns and the other had 13mm. They had all the exact same options for loadouts, the exact same engines and performance. The B was intended to have better engines but they never materialized so it carried on with the previous engines.

Splitting it up A vs B doesn't really do anything, just makes an arbitrary division.

The gunpod was rumored to be used on at least one plane that had the 4-pack in the bay, but this may have been debunked. Although it was debunked as not being common, and the photos I showed above indicate otherwise, so once again it's a possibility.

While it would be rare, no doubt, we again get to the issue of how to lay it out in the hangar. I really think it can be done in a single hangar option (i.e. Me410B, and just invclude the 7mm option for the 410A for free).

What's the most bomb options in the hangar so far? How many options does the P-47 have, or P-51, etc? I know some of those planes have a lot of combinations! Once we know our maximum limits (so far) it might be easier to make a suggested hangar list.

[Charge]

I mean that eg. it may turn out that A did not use MK103s operationally and that is the load-out that I'm most interested in and thus I suggested B.
If we'd get a AB hybrid or both with slightly different load-outs that is fine with me, of course.

-C+

[Krusty]

From the looks of it they all shared the same loadouts interchangably. There was no "this only on that, these only there" and so forth. The only weapons difference was the fixed MGs in the nose under the pilot's feet going from 7mm to 13mm.

[Krusty]

Did some checking in the hangar. Plenty of craft have up to 7 items and it's possible you can fit more (it wasn't totally cramped).

B-29: even with this behemoth blocking the view it still has 7 options on the left side.

F4us: 7 items in the center
Ju88: 7 items left
Moss6: 6 items left
P38: 7 items center
P47: 7 items center, 6 items left, 4 right
Typh: 7 items left.

So it's quite possible to have at least 7 or 8 (counting 1 for "blank," remember?) on each list in the hangar.

We might even push 9 depending how far back the plane is placed in the hangar view, giving more floor room.

I would really hate to see the 410A/B split up for an arbitrary discrimination (like saying one is a fighter the other is a bomber). It would prevent a lot of useful ground attack combinations for AH purposes.

So, even removing the semi-rare 1000kg single bombload, that puts the bomb bay options at 8 (counting "empty") and the wings options at... well... there's the problem.

You've got to allow the rockets and bombs together, since we have that also on 110G. You'll need to allow the gunpod with either as well, or all 3. Then there's the issue of the DTs.

If you can split the gunpod off by itself, or perhaps the DTs off by themselves.... Maybe separate the belly hardpoints from the outer wings, it's much easier and cuts down on the options.

Big "IF" you can get 4 columns of options in the hangar.

So, trimming the 1000kg bomb (which pains me) and the DTs (rare but useful sometimes in AH! this also pains me) we get them down to 8 items each list.

Main (right column?):
1) 2x MG17 7mm + 2x MG151/20 20mm (plus 2x Mg131 tail guns)
2) 2x MG131 13mm + 2x MG151/20 20mm (plus 2x Mg131 tail guns)
3) 2x MG151/20 20mm (plus 2x Mg131 tail guns)*
(Optional below. I'm still not for these, but Moot raised the point)
4) 2x MG17 7mm + 2x MG151/20 20mm (no tail guns)
5) 2x MG131 13mm + 2x MG151/20 20mm (no tail guns)
6) 2x MG151/20 20mm (no tail guns no MGs)

Wings (center column?):
1) empty
2) WB151 2x MG151/20 20mm gunpod
3) 4x 50kg
4) 4x WGr 21
5) WB151 gunpod + 4x 50kg + 4x WGr 21
6) WB151 gunpod + 2 WGr 21
7) WB151 gunpod + 4x 50kg
8) 4x 50kg + 4x WGr 21

Bomb Bay (left column?):
1) empty
2) 2x MG151/20 20mm tray
3) 4x MG151/20 20mm tray
4) 2x Mk103 30mm tray
5) BK5
6) 8x50kg
7) 2x250kg
8) 2x500kg

Now, adding the 1000kg back only adds 1 entry, but adding the DT back adds: DT, DT+WB151, DT+WGr21, DT+50kg, DT+WB151+50kg, DT+WB151+WGR21, for a total of 6 more items (topping out in the mid teens! far too many for a single column!)

You see the problem with that. If you split off the DT and the WGR21 then you'd only need 3 options (DT, Rkt, none) since so far there's no proof they could be carried in combination.

Then the belly options would just be WB151, 50kg, both, or none. That takes 14 options down to 2 columns of 7 total.


I sent a quick e-mail to HTC to ask a hypothetical about the most any one column can have. Will see what they say.

[Krusty]

I also stumbled across a corrupted scan from some book that was used on these forums in a past discussion. I'd saved it. It's half a page and the first half is on the opposite side (vertically split). No doubt some scanner malfunction because the halves line up normally if you do it by hand.

Anyways, here's a crop, unaffected by the bad scanning process. It seems to indicate that even with the bulge the guns have a bit of clearance.

[Krusty]

Just a quick photoshop overlay:

[Megalodon]

the Night fighters also had BT-400 and/or LT-950 torpedos and put the drop tanks back Ju-300's

[Scherf]

eh - night fighters?

Which unit?

[Charge]

I think it is impossible to fit both BK5 and MK103 in the bay at the same time. Maybe MK108 in upper weapon compartment replacing MG151/20s and BK5 in bomb bay but not MK103s...

-C+

[Krusty]

No Mk108s on Me410s.

Also, the torps were tested only. Never used. The Mk103 took up the room the BK5 occupied. They could not be loaded together.

Plus what's a night fighter got to do with it? (and what is a night fighter doing with DTs when it has a range of 1500 mi without DTs?)

[Megalodon]

eh - night fighters?

Which unit?

Units

 V./KG 2, 14./KG 2, II./KG51, KG54, III./NJG 1, I./NJG 5

[Krusty]

Scherf, you may be thinking traditional night fighter. While they did not have radar onboard, they were used as night fighters the same way 190s, 109s, earlier 110s were -- by flying at night and killing stuff. So in that regard, yes night fighter.

Traditional sense? Not so much and you'd be right to question it.

There's also a mission recounting where a pilot in the baby blitz dropped his bombs and was flying home and spotted a lancaster returning home below him. He nosed down and HOed it. I believe it went down a little while later, creating a fireball (I'd have to go back and re-read this to be sure). A couple of others would fly over to UK bases, drop bombs, then circle around waiting for all the night-bomber returning to bases. They'd swoop in and shoot them down on final pattern. A number doing this were lost to Mossie night fighters, but it still happened

[Megalodon]

No Mk108s on Me410s.

Also, the torps were tested only. Never used. The Mk103 took up the room the BK5 occupied. They could not be loaded together.

Plus what's a night fighter got to do with it? (and what is a night fighter doing with DTs when it has a range of 1500 mi without DTs?)

Is that your judgement? Do drawings only work for you?
I didn't say nightfighters had drop tanks, I said to put them back on your list. but since you mention it...




just cause

[Krusty]

I think I've made a goof...

I've been listing the MG change going from 2x 7mm to 2x 13mm in the cockpit. This being the change from A to B.

Is that supposed to be 4x 7mm to 2x 13mm?

[Krusty]

Is that your judgement? Do drawings only work for you?
I didn't say nightfighters had drop tanks, I said to put them back on your list. but since you mention it...

Ah, I think that clears up what you meant a bit.


I didn't remove the DTs because they weren't used. I only removed them because it increased the item count far too much to fit in the hangar. Given that the range on internal fuel is far more than even the 110G we have now, I figured they were the least important. They only came into play on super long range missions where they escorted Fw200 Condors, from what I've read. Most times the internal storage was more than enough.


Now, as for your drawings: Some of those are just wrong and some are just hypothetical combinations. I'm not saying I "only believe drawings" -- this is from the discussion so far in this and other recent threads. It's also been discussed on other forums from other games and in model-building communities as well.

Where it says Mk108s you can clearly see the drawing is depicting Mk103s (very different guns). Mk108s weren't used, but Mk103s were. No argument there, I think it's just a typo. Moot showed how those typos seem to get started.

The 410 was INTENDED to be used as a night fighter but the radar never showed up. It was not fitted. What *was* fitted was anti-shipping radar, to help locate surface vessels and to navigate over oceans. It was not a night fighter contact-following radar system. It was to help in navigation during the night sweeps over the channel, is my guess, or to help attack shipping. This FuG200 was used but night fighter airborne-intercept radar was not.

Here you can see a picture of one being built/repaired with the FuG 200 installed:
http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Messerschmitt-Me-410/images/1-Me-410B6-Hornisse-captured-with-FuG200-radar-1944-02.jpg