262 peer

[Kazaa]

Well the 109 is overmodelled. Should lock up at 250 
Btw, if the meteor really outmaneuvers the 262, its a beast. But be realistic plz, and request for that meteor which seen action during the war. It was in service inm '44, was produced in numbers, but dont THINK it ever met any flying enemy aircraft. I dont know much about that aircraft tho.

I stumbled across this, not exact figures but something rough to go off.

[Wmaker]

Such handling defects do not typically appear in AHII. For instance, look at our 109s and Zeros, both of which can still contentedly pull Gs at nearly 400mph IAS.

For purposes of AHII, it does not matter whether an aircraft could be handled well with two fingers on the stick or whether you really had to muscle it to get full deflection at speed, since we are all interfacing through little plastic joysticks sitting on our desks.

Control forces are clearly modelled in AH. Wether or not you think they aren't high enough on 109s and Zeros is irrelevant. Control forces are modelled within the game the particular game controller everyone uses doesn't matter. Even if you move your stick to its full left position the game only gives the control surface movement that's available at any given time due to the force limitations of our "virtual pilot".

One thing that Meteor was known for was it's poor directional stability and that for example is something that is different from plane to plane in AH.

[Debrody]

I stumbled across this, not exact figures but something rough to go off.

(Image removed from quote.)

LOL not bad    then it wont be in the 100ish range.

[LLogann]

I have to disagree with where they have the Jug.  Most of our Thunderbolts turn very well, and with some flaps they can out turn a spit from time to time.

I stumbled across this, not exact figures but something rough to go off.

(Image removed from quote.)

[EskimoJoe]

I have to disagree with where they have the Jug.  Most of our Thunderbolts turn very well, and with some flaps they can out turn a spit from time to time.

Not in a sustained turn given equal E states, IIRC.

[LLogann]

Good point, I'll have to check that offline.   

Not in a sustained turn given equal E states, IIRC.

[moot]

From Kweassa's 2.06 trials.  Turn radius with no flaps


That's about 75 feet difference or a little more then 1/3 more radius in a jug. 

[Debrody]

just noticed.
Kazaa, there is something wrong with that diagram. The 109G can pretty much compete with the spitfire16 in the turn radius (not the turn rate), but at least clearly better than the mustang III. But otherwise looks correct. Maybe that pic is showing the performance without flaps?

[Kazaa]

Maybe no use of flaps, could be a heavy G14?

[Delirium]

From Kweassa's 2.06 trials.  Turn radius with no flaps

From everything I've seen, the J and the L have the same radius. They should, since they are the same weight (in AH), have the same fuel tanks/loads, and the dive flaps have no effect on turning radius (again, in AH).

I'm not sure I'd call that graph a reliable source.

[Krusty]

Moray, you describe the 262 as owning the Meteor, but I don't see it that way... the characteristics you describe seem to follow a close parallel to the 190a8 vs the spit8. One rolls worse, one has better firepower. However the one with much better turn rate and much more docile stalling characteristics, coupled with the hispano firepower and the trajectory that goes with it owns the other. That is to say the spit8 is uber compared to the 190a8.

While the meteor may be slower than the 262 (especially that Mk.I Meteor) it will still own a 262. 99% of the time the reason I can't get a kill in a 262 is the horrible 30mm rounds. Put 4x hispano on any fast moving plane and it's instant death.

It will be a faster tempest, only more manuverable. Far cry from being owned by the 262, regardless of the slower roll rate.

My $0.02

[MORAY37]

Moray, you describe the 262 as owning the Meteor, but I don't see it that way... the characteristics you describe seem to follow a close parallel to the 190a8 vs the spit8. One rolls worse, one has better firepower. However the one with much better turn rate and much more docile stalling characteristics, coupled with the hispano firepower and the trajectory that goes with it owns the other. That is to say the spit8 is uber compared to the 190a8.

While the meteor may be slower than the 262 (especially that Mk.I Meteor) it will still own a 262. 99% of the time the reason I can't get a kill in a 262 is the horrible 30mm rounds. Put 4x hispano on any fast moving plane and it's instant death.

It will be a faster tempest, only more manuverable. Far cry from being owned by the 262, regardless of the slower roll rate.

My $0.02

That's just it. The Meteor suffered from very poor stall characteristics and a nose that couldn't track a target well at all.  Add to that it was slower in all flight regimes, sluggish and unresponsive to control inputs,  and had horrible roll rate... and the 262 controls the parameters of the engagement.  This means the 262 controls how the fight starts, what regime it flows into, and when it ends... being able to disengage at will.  Sorry Krusty, I don't have any agreement with you in this, other than the Meteor III had a better flat turn radius and guns with better ballistics.  

The fight basically comes down to an A6M (better flat turn, less acceleration, lower top end) versus a Ki84 (higher top end, higher acceleration, more stable), in prop plane comparison.  The Ki controls the how the fight progresses.  If the 262 refuses to enter into a turn fight at medium/low speeds (like the Ki in that example)...a Meteor should present hardly a problem.

Capt. Eric Brown Chief Naval Test Pilot at RAF Farnborough 1944-1949... C.O. Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight 1945-1946:

"Pedestrian compared to the 262. The Meteor wasnt in the same class. The Meteor 4 picked up quite a bit and was moving in the right direction but neither of them rose to the challenge of beating the Me 262. The Vampire the first jet to land on a carrier would never have kept up with the Me 262."

Stolen quote, but tells the whole story.

[Kazaa]

You know the Mk. IV did around 600Mph on the deck and had a rate of climb at sea level of 7,350ft/min. So unless there was a better version of the Me262 we have, the Mk. IV would be superior in all aspects.

[MORAY37]

You know the Mk. IV did around 600Mph on the deck and had a rate of climb at sea level of 7,350ft/min. So unless there was a better version of the Me262 we have the Mk. IV would be superior in all aspects.

Not according to the actual pilot who tested both. 

And it didn't go into production until 1946.....

[Imowface]

La-7PVRD  not as fast but 6 times the sexy