Arena cap is getting out of hand

[ImADot]

If I had only a single arena to choose from when I first upped my free two weeks, and was subjected to the "tuff-boi" pissing contests and constant crap-flinging I see prevalent in the LW arena, I would have uninstalled the game and never looked back.  I love flight sims and air combat, but don't love all the BS I see in LW.  I'm glad there are choices like EW, MW, AvA, and SEA to give me my air combat fix.

[Traveler]

I say bull, here is 100% quote so it is impossible to be taken out of context.

Your responce.

Please explain how this piece,"That would be true if the CAP's were always in place." and this "I really doubt it has anything to do with business, or lack there of" is not directly stating that it is your belief , that me changing to split arenas was not because of business reasons?

I was referring to and replying to Chappy’s statement. 

You well know that I have stated, and chappy is referencing my statements that things were changed for business reasons.

I do?  How would I know that?  Chappy didn’t quote you.

So you are directly stating that you believe my reasons of changing the arena was not because of business reasons.
There is absolutely no way to take that statement other then it you calling me a liar.

I was responding to Chappy, not you, I never called you a liar.

You know what, life is just to short. Done.

[Melvin]

The Hater Hath spoken.   

A little humor?

[muzik]

How many new people come to our internet sight each day.
How many people visit our download page every day?
How many people downloaded the game every day?
How many people created an account but did not enter the game?
How many people created an account ?

These questions or statistics as you call them, have no bearing at all because in all cases you are referring to people who have not even played the game online yet! So whether they do any of those things couldnt possibly be because you split the arenas for them could it?

How many days does the average person who creates an account play?

Im not sure what this question is getting at. How many days during their first 2 weeks? Or how many days do all regular players included play? This stat may be useful in determining the ability of the game to hook customers. So I'll give you that because it might have something to do with their experience in game. But that is an awful big assumption you're making.

How many people created an account who subscribed before.

This stat almost certainly has nothing to do with the arena split because if they came back they obviously dont have much of a problem with the game either way. Im sure some of them might have gotten fed up for a bit. That happens regardless of the split doesnt it? Ive come and gone for years. It didnt have anything to do with the split but I still hate the split arenas.

How many people who try our game become subscribers.
What % of subscribers delete in the first month?

These two stats would certainly be useful in suggesting whether someone likes or dislikes your game. If someone does subscribe you cannot say that it was because you split the arenas, they werent apart of the game before the split. Unless you asked them what they thought of TT you have no way of knowing whether they like the single or split arenas.

If they didnt subscribe and you dont have an exit survey you are making that large assumption again.

How much advertising have we done this month.

This one has no bearing on the split arenas issue what so ever. It only has relevance to how many people you attract to the game initially.

How many people deleted there accounts this month.

This has no bearing unless you are talking specifically about new accounts and in that case you have already addressed this one. If they were long time players they obviously didnt quit because you made things better with the arena split. It would make more sense to suggest that they quit because of the of the way things are now wouldnt it? Plus, there could be any number of reasons why they quit and this is just another assumption.

How many people's credit cards were declined this month?
How many people have an account but did not play this month.
How many hours did the average person play last month?

I dont know why you would even throw these ones in there! You going to ruin everyones fun because of broke or busy players?  

What is the average life span of a subscriber?

And again, nothing really relevant here. People die, get jobs, lose jobs, get laid, stop getting laid, or just get tired of the game.

I wasnt playing during the split, but in the years prior we had the .com crash and 9/11. The country was diving into debt and people started to lose money. TRILLIONS in losses. Are you sure that your customer base wasnt dropping because of these things? I dont know why your subscriptions spiked the way you say it did but until you see the same result several times, you dont have any facts or data to back up your claim that the split was good for business, all you have is a coincidence. The bottom line is, you are making very large assumptions unless you have some secret data you wont divulge.

I dont know why we are even discussing this because all you have to do is poll the entire customer base. That is real data! Ive noticed that you have no problem saying no (IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS) when you have made a choice. So if the whole population says that the caps are a bad idea, all you have to do is say no I wont accept it. Either way, I think you have enough customers that you would have a good sample of how all customers feel including potential customers. I would like to see the results of that data, but I would be happy just to have it done.

[AWwrgwy]

yada yada yada

You don't look at the stats individually but as a whole and compare them to stats taken at different times. For instance, how long were people playing before and after the split. are they playing longer now? ETC.

This has devolved into Hitech explaining, even vaguely, and some people saying, "no it didn't" who have no other basis that they want to argue.

  again.


wrongway

[muzik]

If I had only a single arena to choose from when I first upped my free two weeks, and was subjected to the "tuff-boi" pissing contests and constant crap-flinging I see prevalent in the LW arena, I would have uninstalled the game and never looked back.  I love flight sims and air combat, but don't love all the BS I see in LW.  I'm glad there are choices like EW, MW, AvA, and SEA to give me my air combat fix.

You have pretty much nailed the problem with arena caps with this comment. The things you are talking about still exist. The arena caps did nothing to change that and and will never do anything to change it. The SPECIFIC problems are not being addressed or even acknowledged.

As for your choices, nobody is suggesting getting rid of all the other arenas, only the extra LW arena.

[grizz441]

Grizz it sounds like you want the science of it whereas HT is arguing the engineering of it. IE who cares exactly why it works, if it works; IOW if it does what you want it to.  Not that there's nothing to gain from knowing and understanding the science of it or that you wouldn't naturally want that deep an understanding, but till you make sense of the how and why, the "what" (the recorded correlation between arena population and subscription growth) is the bottom line and you don't screw with it randomly.  And until you know the how and why, screwing with it beyond your basic "what" understanding is random.

I don't think it works actually, it was a short term coincidence imo.  They made a change, and numbers went up for a few months.  That change must have been the cause for reasons unknown?  Maybe?  Or maybe it was just a coincidence?  That's why I'm asking important questions.  If they cannot be answered then it was probably just a coincidence, they should not be difficult questions to answer if there is a correlation.

[Guppy35]

Just read most of this thread and one a couple questions keep coming back to me.

Why are the people who are so angry about the game and how it's set up still playing?  Why such investment in a game that we have a choice to play or to not play? 

I'd have given up long ago if I was so miserable.

[Razzor 479th]

Very much so Dadsguns, people can disagree with me here with no problem.

Someone states in my house to my customers I am a liar, Yes it matters. If I do not refute it, it gets repeated and repeated, and people begin to take it as truth.

HiTech

Wow, OK, no kiss up here, but HiTech is 100% right about this.  I mean, come on, can you recall the last time he jumped into a thread like this?  But I can't recall anyone questioning his integrity like this either. As the head guy, he has an obligation of leadership to defend his company and his name.  If it gets smeared, so do all the people that work for him.

I have already said I am no fan of the caps, BUT, after reading this entire thread closely, I am absolutely convinced HiTech is doing this for the best interests of the game, the gamers and the company.  I'm impressed with his willingness to step into the fray and respect him for it.  

[5PointOh]

Just read most of this thread and one a couple questions keep coming back to me.

Why are the people who are so angry about the game and how it's set up still playing?  Why such investment in a game that we have a choice to play or to not play? 

I'd have given up long ago if I was so miserable.

There ya go again using logic.  So many complaints, yet they pay $15+ a mo.  Apparently its "Chicken Little Syndrome".

[muzik]

You don't look at the stats individually but as a whole and compare them to stats taken at different times. For instance, how long were people playing before and after the split. are they playing longer now? ETC.

This has devolved into Hitech explaining, even vaguely, and some people saying, "no it didn't" who have no other basis that they want to argue.

  again.


wrongway

Please stop banging your head, you cant afford it!

[kilo2]

 

[Tigger29]

Well instead of complaining, I'm going to actually post a credible idea here.

Before continuing I will state that although I don't like how the arena caps work, I do understand why they exist and I also understand why there is always an imbalance.  Now with that being said, with everything I've witnessed and everything I've read, I firmly believe that the NUMBER ONE reason that the arena caps don't work so well is because of squads.  Think about it, if squads didn't exist, then you could just 'blindly' put a joining person into the less populated arena and no one would ever know any better.  While I like that idea, it will NOT work with the current squad implementation the way it is, so to put that practice into play you'd have to abolish squads altogether.

But you can't!  Why not?  Because squad members represent a HUGE number of the paying customers and there is a large risk that many would simply quit playing the game if they were not allowed to (reliably) fly with their squadmates.  To me personally my squad is like an extended family and I enjoy the camaraderie just as much as I do the game play.  I'm not sure I could maintain my subscription if I wasn't able to fly in the squad anymore.  On the other hand, the people who don't care about being in a squad probably wouldn't care which arena they fly in either.  You could literally blindly put the non squad-members in the less populated arena and they wouldn't even know any better.

Now this is pure speculation and without any actual factual numbers in front of me it's hard to be sure, but I have a feeling that Squad members are a LOT more dedicated to Aces High than non-squad members.  What I mean by that is the average account age for squad members is probably a LOT higher than the age of non-squad accounts.  If this is in fact the case, then I personally think squad members should get a little bit of preferential treatment in the way that the system should be redesigned to keep them together if at all possible and not split them apart.

So what I propose is to have the system handle squad members and non-squad members differently.  If you aren't in a squad then when you click on "Late War" you automatically get put into the less populated arena.  If you ARE in a squad then you are put in the same arena as your squad-mates UNLESS that arena is full in which you are put in the less populated one.  Also if you are in a squad and you can not join their arena, you'll get a pop-up message saying something like "The arena that your squad is in is currently full.  Do you wish to be notified when an opening is available?" and if you click yes then once an opening is available (and you are at the top of the queue) then it will notify you and hold a spot open for you for five minutes to give you time to land or whatever you need to do.  If you don't join within that time, you lose your slot and the next guy gets it.

Also if it ends up that more squad members end up in the less populated arena than in the more populated arena, then the squad members where there are fewer squad members get a message "The majority of your squad is now in the other arena.  You have been reserved a slot before that arena fills up completely and you have five minutes to land" or something like that.  This will encourage squads to switch to the less populated arena if it gets to the point in which most of the members can't join in.  If the squad members are adamant for staying in that arena, then they have to fly their without the support from the majority of their squad.

Does this make any sense?  Let me try a scenario.
Let's say there are five people in the Squad.  Their names are One, Two, Three, Four, and Five.

One logs in.  Since he is the first in his squad to do so, he is blindly assigned to the less populated arena.
Two logs in.  Since there is an open slot in that arena, he gets put in the same arena as One.
Three logs in.  The arena that One and Two are in is now full so he gets put in the less populated arena.  He gets a message "We will notify you if slots open up in that arena".
Four logs in.  He is put in the same arena as Three, getting the same "We will notify you" message.
Five logs in.  He is put in the same arena as Three and Four, except now that the majority is in the other arena he does not get any message.  Instead One and Two get a message saying that the majority of their squadmates are now in the other arena, and that they have reserved slots for the next five minutes.  One and Two land and switch arenas.

Now the whole squad is flying together, and the arenas are a little bit more even.


Now another scenario.  It starts off the same as above:

One logs in.  Since he is the first in his squad to do so, he blindly assigned to the less populated arena.
Two logs in.  Since there is an open slot in that arena, he gets put in the same arena as One.
Three logs in.  The arena that One and Two are in is now full so he gets put in the less populated arena.  He gets a message "We will notify you if slots open up in that arena".
Four logs in.  He is put in the same arena as Three, getting the same "We will notify you" message.
A slot opens up in the first arena.  Since only one slot is open and since Three logged in before Four, then only Three gets a message "There is an open slot in the other arena.  It has been reserved to you for the next five minutes after which it will expire."  Three lands and switches arenas.
Five logs in.  He is put in the same arena as Four, getting the "We will notify you" message.
Over the next 10-20 minutes Four and Five end up eventually making their way into the first arena with One, Two and Three, and once again the whole squad is flying together.

I don't know how hard something like this would be to implement and of course it wouldn't be perfect (no balancing system in place would ever be perfect).  I personally think the 'blind' assigning of which arena you are put in is the best idea possible!  My biggest concern is keeping squads together.  In my opinion, this is CRITICAL and steps must be taken to keep squads intact during that process.

[Guppy35]

Would that be the regular squads or multiple squads under the same name?

[Ack-Ack]

You don't look at the stats individually but as a whole and compare them to stats taken at different times. For instance, how long were people playing before and after the split. are they playing longer now? ETC.

This has devolved into Hitech explaining, even vaguely, and some people saying, "no it didn't" who have no other basis that they want to argue.

  again.


wrongway

I find it funny people with absolutely no experience in running a game studio or designing, developing and operating a MMO telling the developer and studio owner that he has no clue.

ack-ack