Fun with WWI planes and the E6B

[BnZs]

Sorry I didn't mean that type of spin. I meant the Camel practically pivots when it skids right from the gyro.  Of course your momentum isn't going to change directions and flying sideways for a bit while you rotate is a giant air brake so it seems normal that you would have 0 airspeed after a max gyro turn.

Did you mean Dr1 instead of DVII? There isn't much gyro for the DVII to take advantage of.

Yes I meant DVIII. It hammers at least as easily if not more so than the Camel, and both ways to boot. Try it. Lucy, you got some 'splaining to do...

[FLS]

Yes I meant DVIII. It hammers at least as easily if not more so than the Camel, and both ways to boot. Try it. Lucy, you got some 'splaining to do...

I assume you mean the DVII not the DVIII. 

I think I misread you before, apparently you were referring to the Camel gyro, not the DVII using gyro to hammerhead. The DVII does a nice hammerhead but it can't pivot due to gyro like the Camel and Dr1 can.

[BnZs]

The time is the important factor...even using gyro to the hilt it takes a long time to get the Camel to "snap" (snap is a terrible misnomer for such slowness) over. Rather much reduces its utility as a combat maneuver. And if there is a way to get the Camel into any sort of spin to the right, I haven't figured it out.

Should not the snap over happen faster in a plane that has a great deal of gyro as well as rudder to help it?

Occasionally my DVII is modified to a DVIII in flight...

[FLS]

I don't know how fast the Camel should skid right with gyro but it's faster than it turns left and it's almost returning on the same flight path.

[Ghosth]

What Morfiend said, Camel behaves much different at 8k than it does at sea level.

WWI arena needs "something" up at 10k to encourage people to take the time to get up there.

Like a zep perhaps?

[Noir]

What Morfiend said, Camel behaves much different at 8k than it does at sea level.

WWI arena needs "something" up at 10k to encourage people to take the time to get up there.

Like a zep perhaps?

Incendiary rockets 

[BnZs]

*sigh* 5-8K is probably about the average altitude I am attempting spins and other maneuvers. A few thousand feet will not change flight character all that radically anyway. Maybe its a bit early in the morning and I'm irritable, but the bending over backwards to justify why the Camel (or anything in AHII) isn't behaving the way it plainly should gets annoying. The truth remains plain; The Camel could be put into a spin unintentionally while trying to turn right with frightening ease. This contrasts with in-game performance, where the closest thing I can get to a spin is a very slow rotation to the left while the Camel is doing its "falling leaf" act.

FLS: Of course I have noticed that the Dr1 and Camel yaw tremendously under gyro. I have also noticed that this does NOT put them  into a spin. It has been noted before that AHII planes in general are notably reluctant to develop rotation about the yaw axis. This may be a sim-wide thing and not peculiar to the Camel modeling, and maybe I can't expect it to change before AHIII, but it should still be taken note of.

Try getting the Camel to do something like this in AHII:



http://www.mediafire.com/i/?oov810y2o6yhyxr

[FLS]

I find it easy to spin most a/c in AH. The Camel isn't one of them and I don't now how easily it should spin. I've talked to a guy who flies a rotary engine Camel but he doesn't spin it.  You can imagine why. 

The fact that aircraft designed for aerobatics fly differently than WW1 aircraft shouldn't surprise anyone.

Gyroscopic precession creates a yaw force when you rotate the pitch axis up or down. The yaw force is not constant, it only occurs while the pitch change rotates the nose. If you are stalled and falling straight down there is no yaw rotation from precession. If you are yawing with rudder then precession will pitch the nose up or down. This is why I don't see a problem with the Camel torque modeling. It behaves like I expect it to.

As I said I don't know how easily the Camel should spin but I see it as a different issue from the gyroscopic precession.

[BnZs]

As I said I don't know how easily the Camel should spin but I see it as a different issue from the gyroscopic precession.

The aircraft I used to generate the pretty picture is a parasol fighter pulled by a fixed-pitch prop attached to a radial and boasting performance and configuration not too dissimilar to some WWII types :-)

When new pilots were advised to avoid turning right at low altitudes because it throws an airplane into a spin so easily, and we can't make that same aircraft spin by working at it, I'd say that tells us something. Even designs far more spin-resistant than the Camel can be put there by deliberate effort.

And I don't blame the Camel driver you talked to one bit 

[FLS]

The aircraft I used to generate the pretty picture is a parasol fighter pulled by a fixed-pitch prop attached to a radial and boasting performance and configuration not too dissimilar to some WWII types :-)

When new pilots were advised to avoid turning right at low altitudes because it throws an airplane into a spin so easily, and we can't make that same aircraft spin by working at it, I'd say that tells us something. Even designs far more spin-resistant than the Camel can be put there by deliberate effort.

And I don't blame the Camel driver you talked to one bit 

My bad, I glanced at the pic at work and didn't realize it was a sim.   

Just for the sake of argument, assuming the AH Camel is modeled correctly and a right turn could rotate you around until you were below stall speed, which would be a good thing to warn pilots about, might they call that rotation a spin?

[BnZs]

My bad, I glanced at the pic at work and didn't realize it was a sim.   

Just for the sake of argument, assuming the AH Camel is modeled correctly and a right turn could rotate you around until you were below stall speed, which would be a good thing to warn pilots about, might they call that rotation a spin?

When I bank right and simply honk back on the stick in the Camel, it buffets, snap rolls right to some degree, and it goes right back to flying when you release stick pressure.