Colombian Air Force T-27 shoots down a GA aircraft carrying drugs

[CAP1]

Your saying it's easier to hit a manuevering aircraft than the one that's flying straight and level?  

That's a really bad formation, I don't think the pilot of the twin even saw him. T-27 was on his 5O'clock. 1st pass.

Don't know about Colombia but in the US an abrupt break away maneuver means that your free to go. Does not seem to be a good thing to do when you want to intimidate someone.

Yes, he shot him. After that the twin continued flying with a fuel leak. 2nd pass

Yes, he fired. Don't know if he hit or not. 3rd pass

Don't know if he fired or not, but seemed that that's what he was trying to do. 4th pass

Yes. 5th pass

Seems like they were trying to shoot him down from the beginning. I did not see the T-27 do anything to attempt to intercept him.

the pilot knew he was there....unless he had no radio in that aircraft. he was warned multiple times. he was trying to evade, while keepint a small target profile.
 he was in danger of escaping them. by the way they were counting down the distance to the border, i would imagine that at that point that they'd have had to break off, although i'm not sure about that.
 and since they seemed to be trying to force him to rtb, rather than shoot him down, i'd also imagine that he only fired 2 or 3 times.

 in one of your other replies, you asked what they thought would happen when they shoot at an un-armored aircraft? probably the same as if they shot at a 40's  era fighter....something would break, and either end the flight, or force him to ditch...or he'd catch fire, and go boom.

 the only thing wrong with what they did, was that they gave him too many chances.

[MachFly]

the only thing wrong with what they did, was that they gave him too many chances.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I would hope that all thous passes the T-27 did were to warn, scare, and/or force the aircraft into landing. However it seems weird that the T-27 was maneuvering behind the twin, because most aircraft of that class/shape have really bad rearwards visibility, that is why intercepting aircraft usually fly right next to you (not to the side and behind). Another thing that I find weird is that if the T-27 was indeed trying to intercept him why was he shooting? His shooting leads me to think that he was trying to shoot him down. But if he was trying to shoot him down why did it take him so many passes?

Perhaps they were trying to intercept him before the video started and failed?

[CAP1]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I would hope that all thous passes the T-27 did were to warn, scare, and/or force the aircraft into landing. However it seems weird that the T-27 was maneuvering behind the twin, because most aircraft of that class/shape have really bad rearwards visibility, that is why intercepting aircraft usually fly right next to you (not to the side and behind). Another thing that I find weird is that if the T-27 was indeed trying to intercept him why was he shooting? His shooting leads me to think that he was trying to shoot him down. But if he was trying to shoot him down why did it take him so many passes?

Perhaps they were trying to intercept him before the video started and failed?

I THOUGHt i heard them say in the beginning that the tucano was trying to catch up.........

 i think when he first came up to the 5 oclock, he was hanging out so to speak, and probably trying to contact the con, along with the aircraft that was filming.
 when that didn't work, it looks like he throttled back up, pass overhead, and let them know he's there.......i don't think it looked like he shot on every pass. maybe 3 times at most.........

 i honestly hope you're wrong about them possibly having been trying to warn the con before the vid started.......too many chances.......

[MachFly]

It's hard to see in the video but does not seem that he overflew the twin.

Couldn't they just contact him without catching up? I understand when your intercepting you want to get next to the intercepted aircraft and try to communicate from that position, but I don't know if the twin even knew that the T-27 was there until he started firing.

[SmokinLoon]

BS.

Police officers are not trained to shoot to wound.  Not trained to shoot the weapon out of the bad guys hand.  Police officers are trained to shoot center mass.  They may not call it shooting to kill, but if it quacks like a duck...

No, not BS.  What I said was fact.  LEO's shoot to end the threat.  We do not shoot to kill.  We do not shoot to wound.  We shoot to end the threat plain and simple.  We do not practice the "2 to the chest 1 to the head", we shoot until the threat is no more and that does not mean "to kill".  If the perp is knocked down and/or away from what they were able to harm/kill after 1 shot then guess what, we do not keep firing.  After shooting and rendering them no longer a threat we start first aid (after we put them in cuffs).     


If you'd ever had been to a LEO academy, or had any other type of formal LEO training you'd know such things.   

[CAP1]

It's hard to see in the video but does not seem that he overflew the twin.

Couldn't they just contact him without catching up? I understand when your intercepting you want to get next to the intercepted aircraft and try to communicate from that position, but I don't know if the twin even knew that the T-27 was there until he started firing.

 the aircraft that was filming was trying to contact the con....repeatedly.....repeate dly in english and in what sounded like spanish? it sounded as if they were talking to some sort of coordinator, or ground controller, who was also trying to contact the con.

 i wish we could find a better version of that vid.

 and you are right about intercept....i agree with you there.

 we've(cap) had some of our crews fly as "bogies" for the airforce to intercept....to give em practices. and they do pull up alongside.

 a few years ago, there was a cessna 150 that flew into the no-fly zone over dc......they pulled up alongside....when they could not contact, they had a heli(if i recall) come up alongside, with the radio frequency written on a piece of cardboard, so the pilot could tune them.

[MachFly]

a few years ago, there was a cessna 150 that flew into the no-fly zone over dc......they pulled up alongside....when they could not contact, they had a heli(if i recall) come up alongside, with the radio frequency written on a piece of cardboard, so the pilot could tune them.

I don't want to go off topic, but was that the guy who plotted a direct course on his GPS and it took him over the white house?

I did not know they bring a banner with the frequency to you, I'd just use 121.5MHz, I bet the intercepting aircraft has that one tuned in.

[bj229r]

You compare it to an unidentified aircraft entering US airspace, in this case the aircraft was leaving Colombian airspace therefore it was not an immediate threat.

You call a couple of turns maneuvering? I recommend you watch a few videos from WWII where you have aircraft doing real maneuvers (not just changing direction) in order not to get shot down.



Just for the record I don't think anyone is calling Columbian Air Force the bad guys. I just said that it seemed like a wrong thing to do.

All in all, considering the THOUSANDS of innocent people slaughtered by the Colombian cartels over the last decade or three, I'm sure they're not shedding any tears over this guy

[CAP1]

I don't want to go off topic, but was that the guy who plotted a direct course on his GPS and it took him over the white house?

I did not know they bring a banner with the frequency to you, I'd just use 121.5MHz, I bet the intercepting aircraft has that one tuned in.

i think it was a student pilot. it was back when they first put the no-fly there. it wasn't so much a banner as it was pretty much one of the crewmen writing the frequency down on a piece of cardboard.

 the interceptors do tune 121.5, and when i'm up, i keep the 2nd radio on that frequency. some 150's though, only have one radio. also, if i recall, there was something said in the article that the first interceptor supposedly could have had problems with his radio.

[FLS]

BS.

Police officers are not trained to shoot to wound.  Not trained to shoot the weapon out of the bad guys hand.  Police officers are trained to shoot center mass.  They may not call it shooting to kill, but if it quacks like a duck...

So what you're saying is that you've never shot a handgun at a target in your life and you have no idea what adrenaline and max heart rate do to your fine motor skills.

[rogwar]

I'd listen to rogwar he is a CIA operative.

Christians In Action? no way!

On my way tonight soon from Texas to Santiago, Chile for the week. Planning to go to the mercado central for lunch tomorrow. Will take some pics.

Still time for another beer in the Admirals Club.


Haver any of you considered that plane was warping on command?

[PFactorDave]

So what you're saying is that you've never shot a handgun at a target in your life and you have no idea what adrenaline and max heart rate do to your fine motor skills.

I'm not sure what you are drivinhg at there FLS, nor do I have any idea how what you wrote applies at all to the conversation.  I know very well what firing a weapon is like.  While I have never had the misfortune to be forced to fire at another human being, I have been trained to do it.  Ever scrap of training I have ever had has been to put hits directly into center mass.  While I agree that they don't call it "shooting to kill"  (likely for PC and lawyerly reasons), I find it astonishing that anyone would argue that shooting center mass is designed to do anything less then catastrophic lethal injury. 

I will agree that max heart rate and adrenaline play a huge part in real life situations, but that does not change the fact that the training is to shoot center mass.

Honestly, this is a rather silly argument anyway.

[Dichotomy]

You compare it to an unidentified aircraft entering US airspace, in this case the aircraft was leaving Colombian airspace therefore it was not an immediate threat.

You call a couple of turns maneuvering? I recommend you watch a few videos from WWII where you have aircraft doing real maneuvers (not just changing direction) in order not to get shot down.



Just for the record I don't think anyone is calling Columbian Air Force the bad guys. I just said that it seemed like a wrong thing to do.

Sorry Mach.. I saw a plane attempting to evade an intercept.  When I go down to treetop level and break left and right it means I'm trying to get away.  If the pilot was innocent of something why not just pop back up, fly straight and level, and follow the commands of the people who control the airspace I'm in?   Now I'm not a real pilot but if the people in control of the airspace I was in told me to take a heading and land at 'x' if I wasn't doing something wrong I'd head there.  Same as I do if I ever see red and blue lights in my rear view mirror.  I pull over and let them do their thing.  The alternative I brought on myself. 

[Dichotomy]

I'm not sure what you are drivinhg at there FLS, nor do I have any idea how what you wrote applies at all to the conversation.  I know very well what firing a weapon is like.  While I have never had the misfortune to be forced to fire at another human being, I have been trained to do it.  Ever scrap of training I have ever had has been to put hits directly into center mass.  While I agree that they don't call it "shooting to kill"  (likely for PC and lawyerly reasons), I find it astonishing that anyone would argue that shooting center mass is designed to do anything less then catastrophic lethal injury. 

I will agree that max heart rate and adrenaline play a huge part in real life situations, but that does not change the fact that the training is to shoot center mass.

Honestly, this is a rather silly argument anyway.

ya? well you're ugly and dress funny

[MachFly]

Sorry Mach.. I saw a plane attempting to evade an intercept.  When I go down to treetop level and break left and right it means I'm trying to get away.  If the pilot was innocent of something why not just pop back up, fly straight and level, and follow the commands of the people who control the airspace I'm in?   Now I'm not a real pilot but if the people in control of the airspace I was in told me to take a heading and land at 'x' if I wasn't doing something wrong I'd head there.  Same as I do if I ever see red and blue lights in my rear view mirror.  I pull over and let them do their thing.  The alternative I brought on myself. 

I'm not saying he did not do anything wrong. I'm saying what he did was not maneuvering, it was changing direction. Your right he was evading an intercept, by flying straight, he was not trying to not get shot down.