e-fighting

[df54]

 

   how can a propeller fighter e-fight when they seldom have excess energy to e-fight with?  If my understanding
   is correct thrust has to be greater than drag to effectivly e-fight.    

[moot]

By having at least more excess thrust/energy than the other guy?

[JOACH1M]

Different planes are better at e fighting then others

[Delirium]

You need to read the other guys energy state closely... in some cases, all that extra energy the other guy has can actually work against him. For example;

One of Hajo's favorite moves in his P47 is to let a 109 dive on him and he noses down at the same time. Once the 109 begins to compress, he pulls up while the 109 struggles because he has a higher airspeed. Hajo recovers and has the perch on the 109.

One of my favorites is to let the high bandit dive on me, the closer he is to a 90 degree dive the better. If he doesn't have that much alt, I'll have him burn more energy by keeping him 90 degrees AoT, since I'm slower I pull 3Gs while he is pulling up to 9Gs for the same circle. Even if he doesn't black out and end up beneath me, he will bleed energy to a more co-E state.

[FLS]

I'm not sure what you mean by excess energy. If two similar aircraft are fighting they can choose to make an angles fight or an energy fight. In an energy fight your initial goal is to get an energy advantage, speed and or altitude, over the bandit. If dissimilar aircraft are fighting and one has a turn rate advantage then the other aircraft will have to fight an energy fight.

[moot]

It's a pretty open ended question.  Maybe DF54 can say if he had something more specific in mind.

[33Vortex]

In AH the e-fighter is typically the pilot who has come to the realization that maneuvering hard can actually work against him and have put into practice to maneuver only as much as necessary to achieve the same end goal.

[Vudak]

In AH the e-fighter is typically the pilot who has come to the realization that maneuvering hard can actually work against him and have put into practice to maneuver as little as possible to achieve the same end goal.

It might be semantics, but I'd revise the bolded as: "maneuvers no more than necessary."  Saying, "as little as possible" runs a strong risk of being misinterpreted, IMO.

[33Vortex]

A good observation Vudak which I think is very correct. That is a better way to word it.

[TequilaChaser]

In almost every encounter between 2 players....... one will have more energy (alt/speed) verses the other player... so going in to the fight the Player with the E advantage will be the one capable of E-Fighting while the other will be left to use angles.....now this position can actually switch back and forth between the 2 players, if the Player with less energy knows how to work his opponent they can make their opponent burn their E advantage and sometimes even overcome the advantage and gain the E advantage themselves...

it does not necessarily have to be certian plane types...

a Faster higher alt F6f-5 can have a superior E advantage over an La7 or a FW190D9 etc..... if the La7 or D9 player knows what to look for and bleeds the F6f's energy down, the D9 player can gain the upper hand of E advantage.... and reverse the role where the F6f will have to revert to the angles approach

E-Fighting is the complete package of fighting with Angles tactics (turn fighting) & BnZ tactics...... combined..... practicing and learn when to incorporate each style of tactic in your preferred plane type, is like the holy grail of dogfighting in your ride......

hope this helps

TC

[Badboy]

how can a propeller fighter e-fight when they seldom have excess energy to e-fight with?  If my understanding
is correct thrust has to be greater than drag to effectivly e-fight.

Nope, you don't need more thrust than drag to e-fight, you just need to have a slightly better thrust to drag ratio than your opponent. You don't need to gain total energy, you just need to lose less than your opponent. Total energy is irrelevant, what matters is your energy relative to the bandit. By losing less energy than your opponent you can gain a significant energy advantage that can eventually be converted to an angular advantage. Some aircraft have characteristics that make them better for this than others.

However, you can achieve an energy advantage even in similar aircraft engagements if you know how. The reason is that thrust and drag are not constant, if you know how they vary you can fly such that your thrust is greater and your drag is less than your opponent. You may not be gaining total energy, but you will gain energy relative to the bandit. As you gain relative energy, you can store it, and eventually spend it by increasing your turn rate for a better position, and then repeat until your advantage is decisive.

Badboy

[JunkyII]

Got to love how thee AH trainers can explain this stuff....make it nice and easy to understand

 

[SIK1]

E fighting = Using your E in a more efficient manor than your opponent to ultimately result in his demise.

[colmbo]

I've always considered every fight an E-fight.  It doesn't matter if you're B&Z or turning and burning....energy state, yours and his, is going to be a factor in the fight.

[boomerlu]

However, you can achieve an energy advantage even in similar aircraft engagements if you know how. The reason is that thrust and drag are not constant, if you know how they vary you can fly such that your thrust is greater and your drag is less than your opponent. You may not be gaining total energy, but you will gain energy relative to the bandit. As you gain relative energy, you can store it, and eventually spend it by increasing your turn rate for a better position, and then repeat until your advantage is decisive.

I've done this many many times in same-plane duels that are otherwise locked in a stalemate nose-tail fight in order to turn the fight around and win. It can be scary as you lose angles by favoring E, but your extra E cushion will prevent your opponent from getting guns on.