f4u brutal stall?

[Saxman]

I for one do not encourage using Combat Trim in the F4U, especially when slow under 200 IAS.......

The one place I'll disagree here is when you want to quickly neutralize your trim before taking a shot. Otherwise, as TC suggests I generally turn CT off for the most part in the F4U.

[mtnman]

Interesting read about CT and AP. I'll look for the way to turn CT off altogether since AP can be used to manage trim and I already make extensive use of that feature. If one take care it can be more efficient that way.

I'm one of those guys that flies the F4U a fair amount of time too.

What I do with CT is set it "off" by default, but have a button near my thumb mapped to toggle it on/off.  That way I can quickly flip it on if I want, but with it defaulted off it never messes me up by being on when i don't want it on.

I also have the trims mapped, and like to trim for straight/level at about 270mph or so.

I use the CT for takeoff, and general flying around.  I flip it off when I get into combat that takes me to speeds where I use flaps.  If I hang out for a stall, but need to quickly dive I generally get my flaps up, nose down, and CT briefly engaged as I dive.  If I get down to about 275 or so again, the CT is turned off...

The F4U does some fantastic things, and IMO is the best and most versatile plane in the game, especially when you factor in the -4.  But...  It's also one of the "busiest" planes to fly, if your going to get the most out of it.  Those flaps need to go up and down quickly depending on the situation, good throttle use is a must (and I certainly wouldn't recommend lowering it near a stall as mentioned; I'd firewall it and hit WEP.  In some cases backing it off to recover from a spin is good though, AFTER you've entered the spin), and awesome SA is all-important and potentially difficult with the big nose and canopy plate.  CT on and off, or manually trimming as needed.  Lots to do, but lots of reward once you figure it out.

Get with a trainer ASAP...

I'm one that doesn't scale my stick settings either.  I like all my sliders maxed out along the top for rudder, elevator, and aileron.  I like to fly with small, controlled movements, and like the stick to be sensitive.  Scaling causes me to over-control, because I don't get as much deflection as I expect with a given stick movement.  I don't like the mushy feel scaling gives me.  Many players love it though, so it's worth a try.

The F4U can have some nasty stall/spin characteristics, but you can get past them with a little practice.  You should have seen the nasty stall/spin my F4U caused in an A6M5 last night, lol.

[PuppetZ]

What I do with CT is set it "off" by default, but have a button near my thumb mapped to toggle it on/off.  That way I can quickly flip it on if I want, but with it defaulted off it never messes me up by being on when i don't want it on.

i'll try to work with that. Since I rigged myself a freetrack cap, I have a few more switch available on my hotas so i mapped manual trim to the old view switch.

Those flaps need to go up and down quickly depending on the situation, good throttle use is a must, and awesome SA is all-important and potentially difficult with the big nose and canopy plate.

I'll need to work these flaps thingy. Alot to coordinate at the same time. Already have my hands full with the manual trim and such. I agree with throttle work. I'm beginning to realize that sometimes it's good to reduce thrust a bit if I only need to dump just a bit of E. Experimented with it tonight vs Soulyss. Had the greatest time since I play this game and nothing even went BOOM!  . He's all humble but this man knows his thing. And he can babysit you trough the fight. Kudos to you  . I could get angle on his jug with my -1D if I started with a speed/alt advantage. but co-alt, forget it. Good thing he didn't shoot I'd still be crying from    . He does thing with his plane I didn't even think possible(that prop hanging thing was just awesome and if you don't know what I mean see FLS avatar that thing actually going BACKWARD).

SA has gone up alot since I rigged that freetrack thingy. If someone is interested I could show you how to do it for under 30$. Canadian of course  .

I'm one that doesn't scale my stick settings either.  I like all my sliders maxed out along the top for rudder, elevator, and aileron.  I like to fly with small, controlled movements, and like the stick to be sensitive.
The F4U can have some nasty stall/spin characteristics, but you can get past them with a little practice.  You should have seen the nasty stall/spin my F4U caused in an A6M5 last night, lol.

I found that the biggest problem with my having trouble controlling the plane was almost all related to my stick scaling. It was rigged at default scaling and it made the f4u almost un-flyable. Like riding a wild stallion. At the advice of Getback, I put all the slider to the top for pitch. Problem gone. And yes, as FLS did remark, it's, indeed, equivalent to no scaling at all. That's what i'll stick with from now on. Sure the A6M5(my usual ride) can be induced to a nasty stall if your not careful. But I got the feeling it's much more forgiving of my noobage (is that even a word?). In the F4U I need speed to turn, or alt of which I don't need that much in the zeek. Of course, SA is all. Bad SA will kill you in any rides. As a matter of fact I read somewhere that most of the plane shot down during ww2 were taken by complete surprise, not even realizing they were followed.

Again thank you so much getback,FLS and soulyss. I'm having a blast and it's in a big way thanks to you guys.   

[321BAR]

I really don't like this. Some people seem to feel it works, but the only situations where I use the landing gear in combat is 1) my initial dive into a fight when I have a significant altitude advantage and don't want to overspeed, or 2) when dive-bombing ground targets. The landing gear can bleed off TOO much airspeed, and the earlier model Hogs take too long to get it back again. This is a desperation move, and when I see another F4U drop his gear in a fight I'd say 95% of the time I've got him dead to rights. If my opponent's gear go down in a low-speed turning fight my nose goes UP.

And as usual in these sorts of threads: RUDDER! RUDDER! RUDDER! RUDDER! RUDDER! I can NOT emphasize the rudder of the Corsair enough. The flaps on the Corsair are great, but IMO their importance is somewhat exaggerated and learning to manage that big rudder is even MORE important to flying the Corsair effectively.

i've used the gears low and slow. i do it when im about to slightly overshoot my target and keep my throttle full to avoid stalling. 95% of the time for that, im right behind them again shooting his arse off

i also kick my gears when im pulling a maneuver at the top near the stall to avoid being shot, it makes the F4U go nuttier but more stable it seems when im coming out of the forced spin.

Also, when im on the deck, kicking the gears at the right time gets me down just enough speed for an extra notch of flaps to avoid being shot.

Usually throwing my gears down at the right time saves my life and gets me a kill or two...

[TequilaChaser]

I have flown against MtnMan in F4U's a good several times, and outside of my wild arse tantics to really get down in the sub 100 MPH range in dogfights against spitfires, ki84s, zekes when I am in my F4U1.for the most part MtnMan and myself fly the F4U under the same conditions, scale settings, trim settings, etc..... MtnMan prefers 270 range level flight for his trim setting.... I prefer 325 to 340 MPH level flight trimmed....and I leave it trimmed to that level flight speed thruoghout my entire fight.......

instead of ever dropping the gear to bleed my E or slow down...I find it much faster and easier to cross control and stick that F4U Rudder in the wind....it takes less time to do this than it does waiting for the gear to come out and then for the gear to be raised again.........even 1/4 of the gear being in the airstream is adding additional drag when you do not want it

as for the trimming to 325/340 mph range........ I find it helps in everyway ....
 -I do not have to deal with nose bounce when trying to put my sights on the enemy...
 -I find that I can regain speed quicker when coming over the top or going nose low, because I am not flying against  the slow reaction of the trim to catch up to the current speed, etc....
 -I find that I do not experience that Nose popping UP each time I have to lower a notch of flaps

as for thinking you have to keep fast and fly and maneuver at a certian speed range...... I always recommend flying whatever aircraft you are in, in the parameters of the planes combat performance/flight envelope ( best sustained turn speed to best corner speed ) when in a dogfight.....to stretch that a little bit more I would extend those endpoints to Stall Speed point to Compression Point......once you have advanced and learned a bit more about the F4U.....

there are tons of stuff to learn about each and every plane....... and regardless of your favorite ride, you must also start learning the Good & Bad attributes of the planes you are going to be coming up against...... so you can learn to access the situation and know what your F4U ( or favorite ride ) is good at or weak at and viceversa against the plane type you are fxing to engage....

this is going to be one of the key things that hooks your interest in wanting to become the best you possibly can in dogfighting these cartoon WWII Fiter Planes...... do not rush it, do not overload your brain .take it easy and learn things a little bit at a time......

some of us have been doing this for 10/15/20 years......and we still learn everyday...... learning and practicing all the while having fun playing is what keeps us coming back......

just don't overload, do not try to learn it all in a day/week/month/year..... trying to do so will only cause you to burn out or become disgruntle and give up.....

look forward to hooking up with ya

TC

[Getback]

I have flown against MtnMan in F4U's a good several times, and outside of my wild arse tantics to really get down in the sub 100 MPH range in dogfights against spitfires, ki84s, zekes when I am in my F4U1.for the most part MtnMan and myself fly the F4U under the same conditions, scale settings, trim settings, etc..... MtnMan prefers 270 range level flight for his trim setting.... I prefer 325 to 340 MPH level flight trimmed....and I leave it trimmed to that level flight speed thruoghout my entire fight.......

instead of ever dropping the gear to bleed my E or slow down...I find it much faster and easier to cross control and stick that F4U Rudder in the wind....it takes less time to do this than it does waiting for the gear to come out and then for the gear to be raised again.........even 1/4 of the gear being in the airstream is adding additional drag when you do not want it

as for the trimming to 325/340 mph range........ I find it helps in everyway ....
 -I do not have to deal with nose bounce when trying to put my sights on the enemy...
 -I find that I can regain speed quicker when coming over the top or going nose low, because I am not flying against  the slow reaction of the trim to catch up to the current speed, etc....
 -I find that I do not experience that Nose popping UP each time I have to lower a notch of flaps

as for thinking you have to keep fast and fly and maneuver at a certian speed range...... I always recommend flying whatever aircraft you are in, in the parameters of the planes combat performance/flight envelope ( best sustained turn speed to best corner speed ) when in a dogfight.....to stretch that a little bit more I would extend those endpoints to Stall Speed point to Compression Point......once you have advanced and learned a bit more about the F4U.....

there are tons of stuff to learn about each and every plane....... and regardless of your favorite ride, you must also start learning the Good & Bad attributes of the planes you are going to be coming up against...... so you can learn to access the situation and know what your F4U ( or favorite ride ) is good at or weak at and viceversa against the plane type you are fxing to engage....

this is going to be one of the key things that hooks your interest in wanting to become the best you possibly can in dogfighting these cartoon WWII Fiter Planes...... do not rush it, do not overload your brain .take it easy and learn things a little bit at a time......

some of us have been doing this for 10/15/20 years......and we still learn everyday...... learning and practicing all the while having fun playing is what keeps us coming back......

just don't overload, do not try to learn it all in a day/week/month/year..... trying to do so will only cause you to burn out or become disgruntle and give up.....

look forward to hooking up with ya

TC

That is my practice, to lock the rudders when in an f4u1a or any f4U for that matter. It can be done at any speed, can prevent augers and keeps you behind the enemy. Further release is instant unlike lowering and raising the gear. Lowering the gear signals to me I can out loop you or at least pull up faster. (Oh, be careful not to pull up under a hammer) Then again I can exit the fight cleanly as well should I have the overwhelming E caused by the opponent lowering his gear.

One thing positive about lowering the gear is that if your opponent is in a long nosed craft, like the f4u's, you instantly dip out of site and line of fire. So then the target has the element of an unseen ACM. These can be compensated for but you will have to move off target for a second. Anticipation is so key.

[hyzer]

as for the trimming to 325/340 mph range........ I find it helps in everyway ....

Does pressing (X auto-level) once you arrive at the desired speed trim the same as doing it with the manual trim keys?

[Getback]

Does pressing (X auto-level) once you arrive at the desired speed trim the same as doing it with the manual trim keys?

Pressing auto level takes you to combat trim.

[FLS]

Does pressing (X auto-level) once you arrive at the desired speed trim the same as doing it with the manual trim keys?

That's correct. If you don't have trim mapped to an analog control the auto level is a quick way to set your trim to level flight at your current speed.  You can use auto angle to set your trim with the nose trimmed up or down to your current pitch angle. If you have combat trim set to on in preferences then you will revert to combat trim when you turn off auto trim by hitting X again or by moving a controller.

[shiv]

So combat trim off - hit auto level at 275 IAS, wait a few seconds, move the stick and toggle off combat trim. Then you'll be trimmed for level flight at roundabout 275. Is that correct?

[hyzer]

That's correct. If you don't have trim mapped to an analog control the auto level is a quick way to set your trim to level flight at your current speed.  You can use auto angle to set your trim with the nose trimmed up or down to your current pitch angle. If you have combat trim set to on in preferences then you will revert to combat trim when you turn off auto trim by hitting X again or by moving a controller.

Thanks FLS, I use a twisty stick and keyboard so not many buttons to map on the stick, I need to pick and choose carefully. 

[TequilaChaser]

Does pressing (X auto-level) once you arrive at the desired speed trim the same as doing it with the manual trim keys?

-using X for auto pilot / Auto Level will trim your plane for that speed at which you are flying....
-using combat Trim and flying straight will Trim your plane for the current speed you are flying ( do not have any flaps out )
-using Shift X ( auto angle? I think it is with out looking ) if you are level or in a nose low atitude will trim your plane for the speed you are at

all will trim your plane just the same as if you were manually trimming it , by trimming the elevators, ailerons and rudders seperately......

some people have manually trimmed for so long it is second nature to them..... I started out using manual trim adjustments, but switched off to using the Combat Trim mapped to my FighterStick , so I can toggle it on and off any time I desire......

When I take off to go on a sortie, I will normally engage Combat Trim and fly with it on until I am about to get into an area I might get in to a fight.... at this time I will nose down slightly to get my desired speed.. once I reach 325 to 340 MPH IAS, I will toggle  CT(Combat Trim) off.......

when I am setting my Speed / Trim where I want it to be, I make absolutely positive that I do not have any stick input or rudder input going on, nor any notches of flaps deployed....

I also make sure I do not have WEP engaged... the extra Torque that you get from using WEP will trow off your trim also.......

I want my plane to be in a clean straight line of flight with none of the control surfaces being moved....... This assures me that my Plane is trimmed where I need it.... and it does not take very long to get my plane trimmed , by doing it this way..... Please note if you have any bit of stick or rudder input going on when setting the trim, it is going to be out of whack / will throw you off

Now, trimming manually or trimming to a set Trimmed out speed may not be for everyone...... it all is personal preference.... some people who have been here a very long time and are very very good use Combat Trim all the time ... and on the other hand their are people who use Manual Trim and are just as good as those who use CT...

I do not advocate "Constant Trimming"..... I find it much better to Trim my plane to it's level cruise speed or close to it's level cruise speed and leave it there and not mess with it anymore...... going to the fight area or RTBing to base, I do not worry about it. I will use all the auto climb, auto angle, auto pilot, Combat Trim etc...... but if I feel I am fixing to get in a fight.. I quickly trim back to that prefered Trimmed Speed

one could say that I trim to a nuetural type trim setting....

I look at it like this.... back when WWII was going on, they did not have Combat Trim, or Auto Angle, Auto Speed etc..... a Fighter Pilot trimmed his aircraft for level cruise flight speed while patrolling, and once he got into a fight the last thing on his mind was turning "trim wheels" to trim his plane..... he might of made 1 or 2 small adjustments if any but he did not constantly Trim his aircraft during a dogfight like Aces High's "Combat Trim" feature does.....

as for my selected Trim speed... I know that most of my flying/fighting is going to be below the Trim speed, so when I am doing say 250 or 200 IAS and I want to bring guns to bare on my opponent... I can  gently/steadly pull the gun sight on to my opponent..... I do not have to push/pull/push/pull to steady the bore sight because I am not in Combat Trim and I am not having to fight the Combat Trim..... ( throw flaps into that equation while using Combat Trim and it just gets worse......... Combat Trim is for level or straight flight speeds, it is not taking in to account any notches of flaps being used )

sorry for being so long winded

hope this helps

<S>

TC

[FLS]

So combat trim off - hit auto level at 275 IAS, wait a few seconds, move the stick and toggle off combat trim. Then you'll be trimmed for level flight at roundabout 275. Is that correct?

If you have combat trim on by default it may change the trim settings slightly before you toggle it off. I'm not certain because I've never had it on by default. If you have combat trim off by default and toggle it on when you need it then it will certainly work as you described.

[shiv]

If you have combat trim on by default it may change the trim settings slightly before you toggle it off. I'm not certain because I've never had it on by default. If you have combat trim off by default and toggle it on when you need it then it will certainly work as you described.

Thanks FLS, appreciate it.

[PFactorDave]

This thread is turning into one of those rare "nuggets of gold" types.  Thanks everyone for their inputs.  I am going to start experimenting with trimming options and see what happens.