reduce ho wish

[SlapShot]

Exactly.  Each pilot should use the strong points of his crate while considering the weak points of the other guy's crate.  It's called realistic strategy and is not gaming the game.  

The turn and burn guys in their Brewsters are not chastised for using their crate's strengths (tight turning and ability to absorb hits) against a crate that doesn't turn as well or take hits as well.

Those who so cavalierly go HO when they are in massive cannon planes would most likely think twice if they encountered the same scenario in real life.

HOing people in this game is easy because there are no consequences (loss of life). If there were, you would see the amount of incidences drop drastically.

Yes HOing happened in WWII but the circumstances when the HOing occurred was under much different circumstances than what we normally see in this game.

Yes P-40s HOed Japanese planes but the reason they did was the .50 cals in the P-40 had much more far reaching effects/damage at distance than any Japanese guns that they would encounter. So they fired HO from looooong distance ... I doubt strongly that the went HO at 200 yrds.

Yes the Germans HOed bombers ... much safer than HOing P-47s or P-51s ... again, I doubt strongly that they would go for the HO on every pass and within 200 yrds or more of an American fighter unless it was a last ditch effort.

Such is not the case in this game.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Yes the Germans HOed bombers ... much safer than HOing P-47s or P-51s ... again, I doubt strongly that they would go for the HO on every pass and within 200 yrds or more of an American fighter unless it was a last ditch effort.

Such is not the case in this game.

It's interesting you mention this because, before the 17G, the best approach WAS the HO. Saburo Sakae notes as much in his book. That's why that twin-fitty got fitted at the chin position.

[dbh991]

Those who so cavalierly go HO when they are in massive cannon planes would most likely think twice if they encountered the same scenario in real life.

Who said anything about "so cavalierly" ?  I was talking about careful strategy.

Besides, trying to head-on shoot a skilled flyer is either difficult or impossible.

HOing people in this game is easy because there are no consequences (loss of life). If there were, you would see the amount of incidences drop drastically.

Could say the same thing about sloppy flying, poor tactics, poor SA, and so on...

Perhaps we could have electrodes taped to our temples that are driven by AH and one's computer.  Every hit one takes would result in an unpleasant but non-harmful shock.  Anything that resulted in the death of the pilot would deliver a much higher voltage shock, again, no permanent damage to the player.  Perhaps this immediate and real feedback would achieve your goal?

Yes P-40s HOed Japanese planes but the reason they did was the .50 cals in the P-40 had much more far reaching effects/damage at distance than any Japanese guns that they would encounter. So they fired HO from looooong distance ...

Yes.  Thanks for making my point.  One's *strategy* is to a degree dependent upon the crates' characteristics in the fight.

Yes the Germans HOed bombers ... much safer than HOing P-47s or P-51s ... again, I doubt strongly that they would go for the HO on every pass

Who said every pass?.  Not I.  The head-on shot takes careful tactical consideration.

[LLogann]

Anybody who thinks head ons didn't happen (more often than not during WWII) is not very well read. 

BELIEVE THAT. 

[dbh991]

Perhaps we could have electrodes taped to our temples that are driven by AH and one's computer.  Every hit one takes would result in an unpleasant but non-harmful shock.  Anything that resulted in the death of the pilot would deliver a much higher voltage shock, again, no permanent damage to the player.  Perhaps this immediate and real feedback would achieve your goal?

Actually, this concept is not as absurd as it may seem, nor an April 1 joke.  

I remember some 15+ years ago when my 2 sons were young.  We had a set of paintball-like guns except instead of firing paintballs infrared light was emitted directionally from the gun.  Each player also wore a headband with an IR receiver to register hits.  When hit, there was a single small hard plastic dowel that would vibrate vigorously against one's temple.  The sensation was not at all pleasant.  It was a bit satisfying to hear the "Owww" coming from the guy that you successfully "shot".  Hey.  Perhaps here is another hardware marketing opportunity for someone.  It's already been done and the cost of the hardware could not be more than $10 (based on my recollection of the cost of the Survivor Shot guns and headgear).  The software is of course free.

[SlapShot]

Who said anything about "so cavalierly" ?  I was talking about careful strategy.

Besides, trying to head-on shoot a skilled flyer is either difficult or impossible.

Could say the same thing about sloppy flying, poor tactics, poor SA, and so on...

Perhaps we could have electrodes taped to our temples that are driven by AH and one's computer.  Every hit one takes would result in an unpleasant but non-harmful shock.  Anything that resulted in the death of the pilot would deliver a much higher voltage shock, again, no permanent damage to the player.  Perhaps this immediate and real feedback would achieve your goal?


Yes.  Thanks for making my point.  One's *strategy* is to a degree dependent upon the crates' characteristics in the fight.

Who said every pass?.  Not I.  The head-on shot takes careful tactical consideration.

My point was that the HO tactics used in WWII, and when they used them are way different and not as frequent as we see them in this game and that is due to the lack of real consequences for going HO.

I use the HO on occasion ... example: 3 v 1 ... I will HO anyone that points their nose at me in that situation. Chances are I am most likely going to get killed and if I can get lucky and take one out ASAP and trim the odds ... I'll go for, but I don't go running all over the place trying to HO anything and everything in my path because I really don't like 50/50 odds when approaching a fight. That is not the case for a whole lot of people who play this game.

[dbh991]

I use the HO on occasion ... example: 3 v 1 ... I will HO anyone that points their nose at me in that situation. Chances are I am most likely going to get killed and if I can get lucky and take one out ASAP and trim the odds

Thanks again for pointing out the head-on as a valid tactic depending on the situation such as when hopelessly outnumbered.  Though I would still try to escape alive if at all possible.

I'll go for, but I don't go running all over the place trying to HO anything and everything in my path because I really don't like 50/50 odds when approaching a fight.

I totally agree with you!

That is not the case for a whole lot of people who play this game.

In any game I've ever played, be it real life basketball, real life sailboat racing, online flight sims, whatever, ... there are always those that use questionable practice to try to gain advantage.  It's a fact of any competitive sport or game.

The thing I find irritating: In the Dueling Arena there are often the one or two that camp out over another base and try to gun down any craft trying to take off or land.  But again, it is an issue that we have learned to deal with.

Bottom line for me.  If someone wants to try to take a head-on shot at me I have absolutely no issue with that.  He may be making the correct tactical decision based on what he and I are flying and the number enemy craft in the area etc.  If I am in control of my craft and have proper SA he isn't going to be able to touch me and he will be wasting ammo.  In a furball of course anything goes because everything happens so fast.  But I digress...

Don't let the head-on shot issue raise your blood pressure.  It isn't worth it.

[SlapShot]

Thanks again for pointing out the head-on as a valid tactic depending on the situation such as when hopelessly outnumbered.  Though I would still try to escape alive if at all possible.

I totally agree with you!

In any game I've ever played, be it real life basketball, real life sailboat racing, online flight sims, whatever, ... there are always those that use questionable practice to try to gain advantage.  It's fact of any competitive sport or game.

The thing I find irritating: In the Dueling Arena there are often the one or two that camp out over another base and try to gun down any craft trying to take off or land.  But again, it is an issue that we have learned to deal with.

Bottom line for me.  If someone wants to try to take a head-on shot at me I have absolutely no issue with that.  He may be making the correct tactical decision based on what he and I are flying and the number enemy craft in the area etc.  If I am in control of my craft and have proper SA he isn't going to be able to touch me and he will be wasting ammo.  In a furball of course anything goes because everything happens so fast.  But I digress...

Don't let the head-on shot issue raise your blood pressure.  It isn't worth it.

I never said that it wasn't a valid tactic ... just that the frequency of the attempts that we see in this game is ridiculous.

I can't remember the last time I died to someone's gun who was attempting to HO me. I know all too well how to avoid them and turn them into my advantage, so my blood pressure is never a consideration.

As a matter of fact, over the 9 years I have played this game, I have never lost my temper, thrown things around the house, yelled at my wife, kicked the dog, or PMed anyone because of this game or anything that has transpired in this game. That is probably why I have lasted so long.

[icepac]

My dad's gun kill of a mig 17 was a HO....after being bounced and working his way out of the jam he was in.

He's free to give the "buzz aldrin reporter treatment" to any that question his actions.

[Karnak]

There is no "zoom", there is merely "reduce field of view to give closer to 1:1 game:real life scale.  When you "zoom out" you are reducing the scale and the detail below reality and making it harder to see details you could in reality.

[PJ_Godzilla]

The thing I find irritating: In the Dueling Arena there are often the one or two that camp out over another base and try to gun down any craft trying to take off or land.  But again, it is an issue that we have learned to deal with.

Why would that be irritating? Perhaps because it's called the "Dueling Arena" instead of the "Vulching Arena"..?

I'm just guessing.

[Krusty]

Sounds like a few folks been drinking the AvA koolaid -- I mean propoganda -- too heavily.


Slapshot: HOs were quite common even on P-51s and P-47s. You can look online and even find LW guncam footage of this.

[SlapShot]

Sounds like a few folks been drinking the AvA koolaid -- I mean propoganda -- too heavily.


Slapshot: HOs were quite common even on P-51s and P-47s. You can look online and even find LW guncam footage of this.

Please provide some links that show this.

[The Fugitive]

Well we had the nuke in the war, let's get a few of those. POW camps, they had those. If you bail over enemy territory you spend the next 2 weeks as a POW, won't that be fun.

HO's do nothing but kills fights. What a wonderful way to play a combat game, one with out fights.

[FLS]

...
HO's do nothing but kills fights. What a wonderful way to play a combat game, one with out fights.

Hard to see how it kills a fight if they miss. Must be some pretty serious HOJO.