The Me 410 jack of all trades

[Guppy35]

Funny part is I think moot wants the 410 like I want the Beaufighter.   Not expecting some uber bird, but something new and different

[moot]

Being completely dispassionate makes it so much easier to faithfully assess something.  But yeah, I want this one bad.  I probably already spent more time researching it than all the time spent on the Ta 152.  Since the original topic is probably done with, on this other topic - it really was strange to read for the first time, about a plane that I loved so much, just how it was built by slave labor. How, in detail, a few of those gremlins were sabotage. And of course I would've been one of those guys, not being aryan. There were lots of historical and political and technical warts and lots of candidly deprecatory insights of all kinds but the slave labor thing just broke the fourth wall so to speak. A pretty good minduplift

Though in a way it makes any genuine taste for the design itself more genuine still.  You actually know it for what it really was. You can tell what the design was meant to be from what it turned out to be.  I've been a Design freak since I was a kid, so maybe it's just me. If I had the cash I'd either join or do what Flugwerk's doing. It might be only a few generations from now that standards of living and manufacturing tech have progressed enough that something like a Beaufighter or Mossie or Me 410 can be built like kit-planes are built today, as affordably as you buy a mid range family sedan -- only a few decades ago a lot of the things we have today were unimaginable.

Wouldn't that be just nuts?  Actually owning one of these.  Even if it's mostly gutted and much of the functional bits are updated.  All you'd need would be blueprints and training, and the sky's yours and your warbird's.  Blueprints and good pictures could be all that needs to be saved to preserve this warbird heritage.


.. Just had an idea.  If the 110 and 410 have the same specs except for wingloading (assuming that's all there is to it for argument's sake), would using a very intolerant stall limiter in AH give a close enough analog to what the 410 would fly like?  Maneuverability wise.  Maybe a new topic would better get an answer.

[Karnak]

I'd love to see both the Me410 and Beaufighter added.  I just don't expect them to be as good at air-to-air combat as the twin engined fighters already in AH.  

Though in a way it makes any genuine taste for the design itself more genuine still.  You actually know it for what it really was. You can tell what the design was meant to be from what it turned out to be.  I've been a Design freak since I was a kid, so maybe it's just me. If I had the cash I'd either join or do what Flugwerk's doing. It might be only a few generations from now that standards of living and manufacturing tech have progressed enough that something like a Beaufighter or Mossie or Me 410 can be built like kit-planes are built today, as affordably as you buy a mid range family sedan -- only a few decades ago a lot of the things we have today were unimaginable.

Wouldn't that be just nuts?  Actually owning one of these.  Even if it's mostly gutted and much of the functional bits are updated.  All you'd need would be blueprints and training, and the sky's yours.  Blueprints and good pictures could be all that needs to be saved to preserve this warbird heritage.

Part of me is quite jealous of the guy who will get that Mossie they are building in New Zealand.

[Guppy35]

I'd love to see both the Me410 and Beaufighter added.  I just don't expect them to be as good at air-to-air combat as the twin engined fighters already in AH.  

Part of me is quite jealous of the guy who will get that Mossie they are building in New Zealand.

Mossies coming together all over Karnak.  Gonna be a good time for Mossie fliers in the next few years I think.

My thing with the Beau, is I got into the history of it, and now I want to fly it down on the deck where I'm most comfortable anyway in AH and see what it can do.  Might even need to learn to shoot a rocket or drop a torp in that case

[Guppy35]

Being completely dispassionate makes it so much easier to faithfully assess something.  But yeah, I want this one bad.  I probably already spent more time researching it than all the time spent on the Ta 152.  Since the original topic is probably done with, on this other topic - it really was strange to read for the first time, about a plane that I loved so much, just how it was built by slave labor. How, in detail, a few of those gremlins were sabotage. And of course I would've been one of those guys, not being aryan. There were lots of historical and political and technical warts and lots of candidly deprecatory insights of all kinds but the slave labor thing just broke the fourth wall so to speak. A pretty good minduplift

Though in a way it makes any genuine taste for the design itself more genuine still.  You actually know it for what it really was. You can tell what the design was meant to be from what it turned out to be.  I've been a Design freak since I was a kid, so maybe it's just me. If I had the cash I'd either join or do what Flugwerk's doing. It might be only a few generations from now that standards of living and manufacturing tech have progressed enough that something like a Beaufighter or Mossie or Me 410 can be built like kit-planes are built today, as affordably as you buy a mid range family sedan -- only a few decades ago a lot of the things we have today were unimaginable.

Wouldn't that be just nuts?  Actually owning one of these.  Even if it's mostly gutted and much of the functional bits are updated.  All you'd need would be blueprints and training, and the sky's yours.  Blueprints and good pictures could be all that needs to be saved to preserve this warbird heritage.

I spend my imaginary lottery winnings all the time on warbirds   Fluwerke is selling thier business last I heard if you want all the tools for 190 building.  The warbird market in Germany is really growing quickly too.  Mustangs, Spits, 109s  Corsairs etc all starting to land there with new owners.

[moot]

I asked a few of the pistonheads and they said the market was just too thin.  Too little profit margins and too little unsaturated market... Though this was from me asking about if someone were to build new warbirds in the US with the intent to lower prices so that more people would get into it, to keep the warbird blood flowing.  Not-for-profit, or only-for-enough-profit that you could keep flooding the market with affordable warbirds long enough to avoid extinction.

Good to hear about Germany's warbirds though.  I'm looking forward to hearing a genuine D-9 and 152-H engine with the sight of them airborne, in person.

 I just don't expect them to be as good at air-to-air combat as the twin engined fighters already in AH.  

Yep, if only there was such a thing..  hehe

Part of me is quite jealous of the guy who will get that Mossie they are building in New Zealand.

You never know, you might win the lottery on the same day the guy decides to sell it    Right?

[Masherbrum]

I'd rather HTC had brought in either the Beau or 410, than the B-29.   

[ACE]

I'd rather HTC had brought in either the Beau or 410, than the B-29.   

[Wmaker]

My 'hunch' on how the low speed maveuverability of the 410 would be in AH...

I did some very quick in-game testing with the 110G-2 and Mosquito Mk.VI regarding low speed maneuverability. I didn't have a proper stop watch and cellphone can be a bit akward to use so instead of timing complete turning circles I was lazy and just quickly checked the corner speeds.

Mosquito - sea level - 50% fuel:

Clean config: 179mph
Flaps all out: 116mph


110G-2 - sea level - 75% fuel:

Clean config: 154mph
Flaps all out: 113mph

Looking at the figures, the first thing that's really noticeable is how much Mosquito gains on the 110 when the flaps come out. Comparing real life 410 and Mosquito Mk.VI, while the difference in wing loading is quite brutal, The Me410 produces significanly more lift per square feet of wing area due to the differences in airfoils and the fact that Me410 has slats.

Mosquito used a modified version of the RAF 34 both in the root and the tip and Me410 used NACA 23018-636.5 in the root and NACA 23010-636.5. in the tip. Quick and dirty calculation using just the root profiles giving 0.2 extra (I base this on the gain of that of the 109G) on the Clmax for the Me410 due to slats puts Mosquito's and 410's clean stall speeds very very close to each other. Not wholly accurate as far as exact results go but it does give general direction.

So, in AH I'd expect the 410 being able to hang with the Mosquito in clean config. But if the difference when the flaps come out is as drastic as it is between the 110G-2 and Mosquito, the moment the flaps start to come out the Me410 isn't able to hang with the Mosquito anymore.

Again, just my hunch, take it with a grain of salt.

(edit) Forgot this:

[Guppy35]

Well we know how you ruined Aces High with your faulty Brewster uber plane.  We don't want you anywhere near the 410!

How bout getting to work on the Beaufighter instead?

[Wmaker]

Well we know how you ruined Aces High with your faulty Brewster uber plane.  We don't want you anywhere near the 410!

How bout getting to work on the Beaufighter instead?

LOL. 

You did notice that my assesment wasn't very flattering for the Me410, right?

[Brooke]

One of the strengths of the FW's in scenarios is that they handle very well at high speed.  I wonder if the 410 would handle better at speed than the 110?  That would make a big difference in its usefulness in scenario-type settings.

[moot]

So I'm not just bumping this for the sake of having the last word (the 410 from quick skim is, contrary what Krusty insisted, at least as much of a DF pig (pardn mfrench) as the A8, IOW bottom of the entire AH planeset dogfighting ladder), but to point out another thing that I meant to defend in theory in advance of empirical evidence - that you can indeed look at tons of paper figures and flog virtual planes in AH for tons of hours, and if done right, suss out enough of a feel for the corelation between performance in trials and on paper, and enough of both a plane's performance (more of this) and its overall character (much less of this) to make useful predictions.

It's too bad it turned out to be bad news as far as the 410's concerned.  You can lock this one if it breaks forum law.. Sorry for the bump but it's nice to see research/debates brought to their final conclusion.

[nrshida]

Do you find the aircraft disappointing now that it's here Moot, or does your enthusiasm prevail?

[Scherf]

I fargin love it as a bomber destroyer. Strangely somehow, that's what it was built to do.