Author Topic: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...  (Read 4168 times)

Offline FLS

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2011, 07:27:52 AM »
Sorry Sid if it seemed I was jumping on you, that was a general response to the posts you referenced. They seem mostly to point out that we don't have air currents in AH so we don't need to correct for them.

Offline onerka

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2011, 03:25:34 PM »
Not enough diversity...an uber plane...a steep learning curve with some exceptional pilots in the arena = new pilots rapid demise and quick discouragement...little to do that will give someone a chance to experience some "success" while learning to compete with experienced pilots...

This is all stuff an evolving game could cure.  And, all stuff that will hasten the demise of a stagnant (no development) sim. There could be more planes, loons to destroy, arty to spot, zeps and gothas to fly, mts and hills to give a fight more texture than flat ground, bridges to fly under or destroy, etc, etc...Suspect we all understand that.

Hard for wwii guys to imagine, but there is a wwi audience out there.  They pretty much jump from sim to sim looking for something that will keep them occupied. Fls, has been a long time, but you certainly remember an older sim - filled at one point with relatively ruthless Musketeers, when it was full of pilots and exciting.  Then it changed hands and actually digressed, less diversity and no development.  Now that arena is largely empty.  Seems a common thread...

ROF is beautiful, but with no large server and etc...

I know there are still a number of us around who subscribed to AH only because of the "new" wwi arena.  I suspect most of us are not flying much, at least here, for all the reasons stated in this thread.  But, we are still paying each month and remaining optimistic that "two weeks" will someday occur and, who knows.

Regardless of the fm's, the planes are fun to fly.  The fights are often long and excting, particularly if there are a bunch of people fighting.  A camel flown with several wing mates can deal with dr's.  Everyone talks about one on one fights, but as in wwii...consider flying with a few folks.  That can change things dramatically.

Anyway, hope something happens to make the arena more interesting...will probably keep paying for some time simply because of that hope.  In that we seem pretty stubborn.

One 

Offline FLS

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2011, 04:57:31 PM »
Nice to see you here Onerka.  :cheers:

I know people get frustrated but the WW1 arena wasn't presented as anything other than 4 aircraft in a dogfight arena. There was no schedule of development to make it comparable to the WW2 arenas. I think we will see development but people need to enjoy what we have now.

As to the FMs, I haven't seen any criticisms of the FM that can't be fairly characterized as simply "not what I expected". They aren't the same as Red Baron, Dawn of Aces, or Rise of Flight. They match published data, or at least some sets of published official data. Whether they match anecdotal evidence is open to interpretation.

From what I've read the Dr1 and Camel had similar speeds and climb rate but the Dr1 could climb at a steeper angle. I haven't read anything about one dominating the other in WW1, just that both dominated contemporary enemies.

I've wanted to fly an HTC Camel since I quit DoA and started flying Aces High. I would have been happy to have one just in the training arena and as it turns out that's where I usually fly it.  :lol  That's not an indictment of the WW1 arena, I just have limited flying time and I'm usually in the TA or WW2 these days. I don't see the WW1 arena a failure and waste of resources like some people do, I see it as a gift to the community.

Hitech said he's considering how to improve the WW1 arena and Pyro posted they are looking at an issue with the Dr1 they haven't been happy with. It will be interesting to see the changes.  I expect we'll see something in the near future.

Offline BnZs

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2011, 07:36:47 PM »

As to the FMs, I haven't seen any criticisms of the FM that can't be fairly characterized as simply "not what I expected". They aren't the same as Red Baron, Dawn of Aces, or Rise of Flight. They match published data, or at least some sets of published official data. Whether they match anecdotal evidence is open to interpretation.


There are some traits of these these planes that are fairly important for combat that basically can only be guessed at through anecdotes and logic. Dive speeds, G-loads, toughness, handling at the "ragged edge" of stall and beyond, all these tend to be more critical for the WWI birds than the WWII.

That's not an indictment of the WW1 arena, I just have limited flying time and I'm usually in the TA or WW2 these days. I don't see the WW1 arena a failure and waste of resources like some people do, I see it as a gift to the community.

I don't know about the rest of the people posting on this thread, but I put my hours in in the WWI. The *most* frustrating thing to we fans is probably not being able to find someone fight to 24/7, so naturally we look for "what's wrong with it" that makes it less popular than I know it can potentially be. Which was the whole point of the thread really...I want people commenting on whether or not further devotion of resources to WWI based on the current arena's popularity to keep in mind you can't fairly judge the size of a potential WWI audience from the current format.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline CptTrips

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2011, 11:54:30 PM »
I don't see the WW1 arena a failure and waste of resources like some people do, I see it as a gift to the community.


Last I checked they were charging money for it.  In my mind, that doesn't make it a gift; That makes it a product.  We are customers purchasing a product.

If they want to open it up as a free-2-play arena, then I'll get on the BBS and gush about what a wonderful "gift" it is.

Personally, I'd rather pay them money and see them improve it instead.  But if I'm paying my hard earned money, you can bet I will be expressing certain expectations about quality and completeness.  Just like any other product I would purchase.


Regards,
Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Noir

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2011, 04:12:23 AM »
FYI besides the Ardennes Eastern France is mostly flat.

Also one word: SPAD !!!  :aok
now posting as SirNuke

Offline FLS

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2011, 04:53:12 AM »

Last I checked they were charging money for it.  In my mind, that doesn't make it a gift; That makes it a product.  We are customers purchasing a product.

If they want to open it up as a free-2-play arena, then I'll get on the BBS and gush about what a wonderful "gift" it is.

Personally, I'd rather pay them money and see them improve it instead.  But if I'm paying my hard earned money, you can bet I will be expressing certain expectations about quality and completeness.  Just like any other product I would purchase.


Regards,
Wab

You've been paying $15 a month since 1999 for the WW1 arena? No wonder you're complaining all the time.  :D

Offline Urchin

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2011, 06:10:03 AM »
I was just thinking about the Dr I vs the camel after playing last night... you know it reminds me of the spit v vs 190a5 arguments that come up every so often. Historically the 190 dominated the spit v while in AH they have the exact opposite relationship. Why? Because the strengths of the spit are more relevant to the game than the strengths of the 190.

Maybe the dr I isn't 'overmodelled' and it is just the same sort of thing as the spit v vs 190a5. If you want to be successful, bring friends and fly carefully. Or fly a dr I.

It definitely doesn't seem to have a whole lot going for it in the looping department. Right now I have no idea if the camel can exploit that or not but I will try it when I play next.

Offline BnZs

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2011, 06:39:26 AM »

Maybe the dr I isn't 'overmodelled' and it is just the same sort of thing as the spit v vs 190a5.


The DrI should be the best turner. What is doubtful is whether or not it should be the best diver, the best bullet sponge, the most stable gun platform at near 0mph IAS, etc.

It definitely doesn't seem to have a whole lot going for it in the looping department. Right now I have no idea if the camel can exploit that or not but I will try it when I play next.

Exploiting the vertical with even a slight E lead is possible in the Camel, the real problem is the extent to which the Dr1 simply swaps ends and flies right back at you head-on. It is so tough that it is unlikely to take critical damage on a few firing passes, and the Camel is so wonky as a guns platform one is far less likely to be able to score hits, the Dr1 is so stable as a gun platform at ridiculously low airspeeds it can just "hang" there and land critical hits before being "roped", and after a few dozen nose to nose passes, the Dr1's better sustained turn takes over. Another thing is the Dr1's seemingly better acceleration, even though it doesn't have a better power/weight than the Camel at typical AH weights. (Assuming 110hp for the Dr1 and 130hp for the Camel).
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline CptTrips

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2011, 08:42:02 AM »
You've been paying $15 a month since 1999 for the WW1 arena? No wonder you're complaining all the time.  :D


I'm not a groveling arse-kisser like some.  If you're not careful, you're going to rub a sore spot on HiTech's ankle, poodle. 

I have the same expectations of quality and completeness the first day I pay for something as the last.

If true improvements are FINALLY on the drawingboard, I am willing  show are reasonable amount of patience as they are developed.

As a customer purchasing a product, I will always let the company know when I feel the product is deficient.


Wab
 
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Offline FLS

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2011, 08:48:06 AM »
I can understand why you're so upset. You were told you'd get a dogfight arena with 4 aircraft and all you got was a dogfight arena with 4 aircraft.   :rofl

Offline LLogann

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2011, 08:53:13 AM »
He's quite hostile most of the time.   :(

I can understand why you're so upset. You were told you'd get a dogfight arena with 4 aircraft and all you got was a dogfight arena with 4 aircraft.   :rofl
See Rule #4
Now I only pay because of my friends.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2011, 09:04:17 AM »
I can understand why you're so upset. You were told you'd get a dogfight arena with 4 aircraft and all you got was a dogfight arena with 4 aircraft.   :rofl


Dear poodle,

If you would take the time and pull Hitech's joystick out of your mouth and read the posts above as well on many other threads, you'd see that the vast majority of players had completely different expectations of what HTC meant when they asked if the community would like to see a "WWI Arena" than what was actually delivered.  They never asked if the community wanted to see a 4 plane stratless H2H map with a couple of fields tossed on.  I suspect (based on my own feeling and what I have seen others post) is most players interested were expecting a much more full featured arena of the standard set by their WWII MA.  They expected HTC to top their old DOA the way they topped their old Warbirds.


Wab
  
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 09:11:19 AM by AKWabbit »
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Offline BnZs

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2011, 09:18:46 AM »
Could I ask for abit more civility on my thread? We all like the WWI here...

Anyway, I think the fact that the WWI continues to draw any interest at all with the way it is set up is a testament to the possible popularity of that era in flight simming!  :cheers:
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline LLogann

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Re: So heres whats wrong with the WWI...
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2011, 09:21:42 AM »
See what I mean...... This one is a Rule#4 just waiting to happen.  


Dear poodle,

If you would take the time and pull Hitech's joystick out of your mouth

Would you like it if FLS started saying "Dear FatBoy" ?
See Rule #4
Now I only pay because of my friends.