Author Topic: Track IR overview?  (Read 1023 times)

Offline trotter

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Track IR overview?
« on: April 04, 2011, 01:59:15 PM »
Forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere, but I could not find exactly what I'm looking for.

I'm thinking about a return to AH after about a year away. If it's going to happen, I want to make the switch to Track IR now so I can get both learning curves out of the way at once (learning Track IR along with my newbish rustiness I'm sure  :joystick: )

I've looked briefly into Track IR options and am finding that there are now a lot more options/brands/pricepoints than there were when the technology first came out. I was wondering if someone who is "in the know" on current Track IR options could give a brief rundown and recommendations of the best options out there. I don't need absolutely top of the line, and I'd like to keep my spending somewhat reasonable.

Thanks in advance for any help

Offline Reschke

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 03:03:59 PM »
Go to ebay and see if you can pick up TrackIR with the Track Clip cheap...several places on there have the TrackIR 4 and TrackIR 5 versions for about the same price with the Track Clip. Me I would spend the few extra dollars and get the TIR5 with the Track Clip and be done with it...in fact I did do that.
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Offline Bino

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 03:07:43 PM »
I'm still using an old TrackIR 3 Pro with the "Vector" add-on for 6DOF motion, and very happy with it, though I have to admit to drooling over the TrackIR 5.  I use their simple reflector TrackClip gizmo on the brim of a baseball cap, not the LED-equipped TrackClip Pro, which is usually mounted on a mike/headset.  A while ago I read a post on the TrackIR forums that since the brim of a cap is relatively far from the center of rotation of your head, the TrackClip reflector moves more than the TrackClip Pro.  Supposedly, that made the motion easier to read for the TrackIR, which might not matter with the newer TrackIR 4 and 5.

There is also the "Free Track" and the "Face Track" software that uses a web cam, if you're in a DIY mood.

YMMV
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 03:09:26 PM by Bino »


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Offline SkiMan

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 03:49:52 PM »
Definitely get the track clip pro. It's the difference of reflecting the ir light from the camera, back to the camera (more susceptible to light interference) and emitting the light
directly from the object being tracked(which is what the track clip pro does).  When you order the camera, it comes with the reflector set for a baseball
hat so you can give it a try.  But the clip pro is worth the investment.
I've found that the leds give far more precise tracking compared to the reflectors.


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Offline Wiley

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 04:00:51 PM »
I'm happy with my TrackIR 4 and Pro Clip.  The one thing if you get the TIR4 though, go to their website and download the (free) TIR v5 software.  It's head and shoulders above what came with the TIR4 as far as usability/stability.

I like the trackclip because my setup has a nice big headset band to clip to, and the ballcap was bugging me, but YMMV.

I've never seen a TIR5 run, so I'm not sure how much better it is with its higher fidelity of motion detection.  I personally find the TIR4 works well for me.

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Offline Wraith_TMS

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 04:05:33 PM »
There is also the "Free Track" and the "Face Track" software that uses a web cam, if you're in a DIY mood.
YMMV

I used to use Freetrack with a TIR Pro Clip for the LEDs.   I'm now using FaceTrackNoIR (FTNOIR), an open source utility (it's available at Sourceforge).  The current version is 1.5 and works more smoothly and reliably than Freetrack ever did (and I liked Freetrack)..

NO extra gear is needed for FTNOIR, other than a decent webcam to use FaceTrackNoIR; no hats, clips, LEDs or extra hardware.   I'm using a VX6000 webcam from which I'd removed the IR filter for use in Freetrack, but it works fine with FTNOIR.  I get consistent 30 FPS tracking from it (it's max capability).  You also don't have to darken the game area.  The more light the better in fact.  The only downside that I see with this type of software is that it does use significant CPU resources, since it's calculating and smoothing on the fly.  But personally, it works great in Aces High.  NO more TIR Pro Clip for me!  I followed the installation instructions and it worked great on first use.  No set up issues for me.

FTNOIR uses a non commercial license of the Face API and uses TIRviews.dll to work in AH.  I also tried it in FSX using the Sim Connect protocol and in works very well too.  Give it a try; you might save yourself a lot of money.  As Bino and others noted, however, YMMV.

FWIW,

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Offline Tigger29

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 12:40:12 PM »
I'm downloading facetracknoir as we speak.  All I can find is 1.3 but I'll keep looking.

I have TrackIR4 with the clip and am very happy with it but you have me curious about the face track thing.  It's worth comparing the two.

Offline Wraith_TMS

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 02:04:19 PM »
I'm downloading facetracknoir as we speak.  All I can find is 1.3 but I'll keep looking.

I have TrackIR4 with the clip and am very happy with it but you have me curious about the face track thing.  It's worth comparing the two.

Tigger, here is the link to FTNOIR's homepage.  The latest versions (1.5, etc.) and patches can be found there in the Downloads section.  http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

My suggestion is to follow their suggested download order and installation steps.  Doing that let me get the thing up and running right off the bat without any glitches or problems.  My camera was recognized straight away and I recreated my Freetrack input/output curves from memory.  I was able to get very close to workable settings on that first run as a result. (weasel clause/ YMMV  :bolt: ./weasel clause).

Work on version 1.6 is already underway (see the News section there).

Good luck.

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Offline Tigger29

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2011, 11:12:08 AM »
Yeah I got it.. it's not too bad.  I can't say that I'm a fan of the input lag though.  TrackIR seems to be a lot more 'instantaneous' in how it reacts to your movement.

It also seems to lack the in/out axis that TrackIR provides.  This may be just a matter of getting the settings correctly, but it definitely requires a lot more setup than TrackIR does.

Maybe 1.6 will be better, but for now I can't say that it works nearly as well.

Offline Bino

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2011, 11:33:22 AM »
...
only downside that I see with this type of software is that it does use significant CPU resources, since it's calculating and smoothing on the fly
...

Probably not an issue with up-to-date hardware, most of the time.  Still, I'd be wary of big furballs like you see in FSO and Scenarios.  <shrug>

Interesting, though.  I'll have to give it a try, maybe this weekend.



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Offline Wraith_TMS

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Re: Track IR overview?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2011, 02:45:50 PM »
Yeah I got it.. it's not too bad.  I can't say that I'm a fan of the input lag though.  TrackIR seems to be a lot more 'instantaneous' in how it reacts to your movement.

It also seems to lack the in/out axis that TrackIR provides.  This may be just a matter of getting the settings correctly, but it definitely requires a lot more setup than TrackIR does.

Maybe 1.6 will be better, but for now I can't say that it works nearly as well.

Yep; TrackIR is a mature commercial product that's become the standard for this type of head-tracking. 

With regard to FTNOIR, again In my case, I had no issues getting it up and running from the outset but these things are very finicky sometimes and a lot depends on the specs for the system they are loaded on.  It's also good to remember that FTNOIR is still in beta stage. So, that old YMMV caveat is something to keep in mind.

Regarding the in/out axes issue: FTNOIR does use an input/output graphical curves dialog, where you can visually set the input/output and deadband/neutral zone curves for all 6 DOF.  Click on the little graph image in the upper-right hand corner of the program's main panel.  A second pane will open with the Curves for rotation and translation axes.  You can then play with the curves to set the degree of responsiveness you want.   You also need to see what filter settings work best for you, as those affect the smoothing code while tracking.

Second, and this made a big difference in response time for me:
You MUST place a copy of TrackIR's TIRviews.dll file (just copy it from its installation folder) into the main installation directory for FTNOIR.  FTNOIR works with Aces High by emulating TrackIR's game protocol.  AH supports TrackIR and Freetrack, but doesn't natively support the Face API yet (I believe), so you have to tell FTNOIR to pretend that it is TrackIR when playing AH. 

There is a dropdown list on the main panel in FTNOIR where you must choose the correct game protocol.  Choose "Fake TIR" and in the settings for that protocol, then tick on the "Use TIRviews." checkbox    In a nutshell: Copy the TIRviews.dll file from your TrackIR installation into the FTNOIR installation folder, then enable TIRviews in the Fake TIR settings, you should then see an immediate improvement in response in the game.  When I experimented with it, using TIRviews.dll doubled my FPS in game.

Third: the camera one uses may also be a factor.  Generally speaking you'll want a camera that can track at higher than 15 fps.  Mine does 30 FPS max and works okay with FTNOIR.  I read that the PS3 Eyecam is also excellent for this program because it can deliver up to 120 FPS.  The camera's placement should also be optimized.  Lastly, if you use TrackIR, you're probably mindful not to have too many light sources in your play area, but with FTNOIR you actually want more light, because that allows the Face API algorithm to more easily see your facial features.  Better lighting will give you better FPS response from FTNOIR.

Well, I could probably write more, but just check those three things above and you might see an improvement.  It's really not as complicated as my overly-wordy explanation makes it seem either.  Like I said above, I got all that done in my first session with FTNOIR and generally speaking, I like its perfomance.  I DO think it needs furhter refinement but this thing only came out last year, so it's still a young product.  The next version, 1.6  will integrate a newer version of the Face API.

Best of luck to whomever wants to give it a try.  :aok

FWIW,

...



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