Kawasaki Ki-45

[gyrene81]

Wow...someone needs to take some reading comprehension classes.


And no, it cannot be said about anything Japan was flying at the time since the Ki-45 was introduced into service in 1942 and when the majority of USAAF/USN planes that encountered the Ki-45 was in '42-43 in the SWPA (New Guinea / Solomons area).  

ack-ack

i comprehend everything where your objections have been concerned not only regarding the op here but in other discussions...some i agreed with, but many of the others you used the same logic as you used here...

[Ardy123]

There are some planes that were just crappy, no matter how skilled the pilot thinks he may be.

ack-ack

I should do more research on Japanese aircraft. I remembered it from an old game I used to play when I was a kid called "Aces of the Pacific". It had many Japanese airplanes that we don't have in AH. And I know that AoP was not a 'realistic' game, but it was fun to play on my 386.

Some of the planes that we don't have..
1) Kawanishi H8K "Emily"
2) Mitsubishi Ki-21 "Sally"
3) Nakajima Ki-27 "Nate"
4) Nakajima Ki-43 "Oscar"
5) Ki-44 "ToJo" (not in AoP)

[HighTone]

I should do more research on Japanese aircraft. I remembered it from an old game I used to play when I was a kid called "Aces of the Pacific". It had many Japanese airplanes that we don't have in AH. And I know that AoP was not a 'realistic' game, but it was fun to play on my 386.

Some of the planes that we don't have..
1) Kawanishi H8K "Emily"
2) Mitsubishi Ki-21 "Sally"
3) Nakajima Ki-27 "Nate"
4) Nakajima Ki-43 "Oscar"
5) Ki-44 "ToJo" (not in AoP)

#'s 2,4, and 5 for sure 

[SmokinLoon]

As much as I'd love to have the Ki-45 "nick", the 110C-4B (early war version) currently in AH is almost identical.  The only exception would be if HTC added the variant with the 37mm cannon used for the anti-ship role.  The "b" and "c" models all had the same engines but had different gun configurations.  The "c" has the dual 20mm; the "d" had the dual 20mm and the 37mm. Either model could carry 2/250kg bombs, too. 

It would be good to have, no doubt. 

[Ack-Ack]

As much as I'd love to have the Ki-45 "nick", the 110C-4B (early war version) currently in AH is almost identical.  The only exception would be if HTC added the variant with the 37mm cannon used for the anti-ship role.  The "b" and "c" models all had the same engines but had different gun configurations.  The "c" has the dual 20mm; the "d" had the dual 20mm and the 37mm. Either model could carry 2/250kg bombs, too. 

It would be good to have, no doubt. 

No, the Bf 110C-4 is not almost identicle to the Ki-45 other than the intended role of the planes. 

ack-ack

[PJ_Godzilla]

#'s 2,4, and 5 for sure 

Yes,  Iwant that Tojo - and the J2M Raiden for buff-killin' of the B-29 variety.

[SmokinLoon]

No, the Bf 110C-4 is not almost identicle to the Ki-45 other than the intended role of the planes. 

ack-ack

Speeds... check.  Climb rates... check.  Bomb load out... check.  Guns.... check (albeit the Nick's 37mm option).  What am I missing other than turn rates?

[moot]

Can't comment on airfoil, but wingloading (assuming those figures from Wikipedia/Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War are for "loaded" weight) is 35 lbs/sqft which is about 5 better than all other AH twins in lightened dogfighting trim, and powerloading's about 12% worse (or probably equal to AH twins also "loaded").

[lyric1]

Don't know a lot on this aircraft but I do like how unusual it looks so just on that I would add it.

Also some unique paint schemes.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Can't comment on airfoil, but wingloading (assuming those figures from Wikipedia/Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War are for "loaded" weight) is 35 lbs/sqft which is about 5 better than all other AH twins in lightened dogfighting trim, and powerloading's about 12% worse (or probably equal to AH twins also "loaded").

Exactly. This leads me to believe, per the damn formula, that sustained turn should be pretty good even if the powerloading limits your max bank/sustained-turn lift vectoring. I'm envisioning some kind of typically early-war Japanese version of the twin, lightweight, allergic to bullets, probably a bit stiff over 300, but a beautifully maneuverable low-speed handler. That it's upsized compared to the zero will only make it more vulnerbale to the passing 20 mil or 50 spray.

[321BAR]

Speeds... check.  Climb rates... check.  Bomb load out... check.  Guns.... check (albeit the Nick's 37mm option).  What am I missing other than turn rates?

the guns couldnt hit the broadside of a barn for the japanese... Type 99 MK I 20mm cannons are POS guns compared to any other 20mm (MK II had a better velocity but still bad compared to the HO-5). their 12.7mm wasnt half bad though but it only carried a (max) loadout of 2 of them and 2 7.92mm MGs plus the one cannon and the speed for the KI 45 is slower. 110s range was 400 approx longer. service ceiling was higher... yeah pretty much everything.


Wingload was actually very close to a 110s though

[Wmaker]

For air-to-air in Aces High, the Ki-45 wouldn't be any worse or better than Bf110C. As noted, the wingloadings are very close. 110 might again a small advantage in turn radius due in MA-weights due to the fact that it carries sightly more fuel and has slats. Other hand, Ki-45 has a clearly better powerloading and would therefore climb and accelerate better. So overall they'd be very close to each other.

At low altitudes in a flat lufberry, Ki-45 would turn inside the P-38s in Aces High just like the 110C currently does.

Hopefully AH features Ki-45 one day, with a production run of nearly 1700 it was one of the major combat types of the IJAAF.

[Krusty]

I would think the fact that even at best alt the 110C is 20+mph faster than the Ki45 means either the Ki is more draggy or has weaker engines (or both?). That would translate into slower climb speed, don't you think?

These things were ripped to pieces by 1942 P-40Es so badly they were removed from fighter duties.

EDIT: I disagree with your thought that simply because it had 1700 built it was a main combat type. It was relegated to second rate duties after a couple of very costly engagements.

EDIT2: For comparison, throughout the entire war 1700 Ki-45s were made with freedom of production. In just 1.5 years 3500 Ki-84s were made, and that was when production was being bombed into the ground. It clearly wasn't a Japanese priority. Over 10,000 A6M (zero) types were built during the same time, and this is on top of all the other myriad designs being developed and produced.

[Wmaker]

I would think the fact that even at best alt the 110C is 20+mph faster than the Ki45 means either the Ki is more draggy or has weaker engines (or both?). That would translate into slower climb speed, don't you think?

Depending on the source and variant, Ki-45 does about 336-340mph at its critical alt. In AH 110C-4 does ~345mph at its critical alt. 110C-4 FTH is ~19k and Ki-45s ~20k. Power outputs are very close but 110C-4 is clearly heavier.

EDIT: I disagree with your thought that simply because it had 1700 built it was a main combat type. It was relegated to second rate duties after a couple of very costly engagements.

Never said it was main combat type. That would be the Ki-43 for the IJAAF.

[Krusty]

Never said it was main combat type. That would be the Ki-43 for the IJAAF.

Well, I must have misread you:

with a production run of nearly 1700 it was one of the major combat types of the IJAAF.

Depending on the source and variant, Ki-45 does about 336-340mph at its critical alt. In AH 110C-4 does ~345mph at its critical alt. 110C-4 FTH is ~19k and Ki-45s ~20k. Power outputs are very close but 110C-4 is clearly heavier.

Well... debating the characteristics of the 2 planes:

The Ha102 provides 1080hp per engine in the best of circumstances. The DB601 powering the 110C-4 would produce between 1100 and 1200 hp per engine. That's about 300-400hp more total. While the Ki has more wing area, it also has 1700kg more weight when loaded, and even the base empty air frame was 500kg heavier. It's got wide radials (typically draggy) and a larger fuselage with steps and bumps. IMO the 110 is much smaller and sleeker, with less drag due to the narrow fuselage and the inline engines.

As an aside: At the same time the Ki-45 was being developed, the Bf110 had already progressed to the 1500hp-per-engine G model prototype with significantly better armament and capabilities. Interesting comparison, eh?