109G vs spit9, 109g vs p51

[STEELE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94
Surprizing information about turn radius and E retention from pilots who fly both 51, Spit9, and 109G Today, all the time, side by side.
 

[Blooz]

an·ec·dote/ˈanikˌdōt/Noun
1. A short and amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person.
2. An account regarded as unreliable or hearsay.

[Karnak]

The Bf109 out turns the P-51 in AH.  It is one of the reasons the Bf109K-4 is so lethal to P-51s.

The guy said he had no personal experience with the Spitfire and was told it would out turn the Bf109G, but he'd have to see it to believe it and the yahoos doing the interview go all Luftwaffe fanboi and take it as gospel.  Wonder what he'd have said if they asked if the Zero would out turn it, after all, he claimed the Bf109G turned on a dime.

I am also curious as to the state of the guns, armor, self sealing tanks and ammunition on that Bf109G.

[Krusty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94
Surprizing information about turn radius and E retention from pilots who fly both 51, Spit9, and 109G Today, all the time, side by side.
 

Not valid. Not only is it anecdotal, but it's anecdotal about warbirds, or historic planes from 60+ years ago being maintained and flown today as history pieces. They are not being pushed anywhere like they were in WW2, and most of these warbirds aren't in war-time condition and aren't allowed to run at full power because the engines are precious and rare.

Now if you had a WW2 pilot talking about his combat in WW2, .... well it would still be anecdotal but it would be a heckuva lot closer to relevant.

[Widewing]

Not valid. Not only is it anecdotal, but it's anecdotal about warbirds, or historic planes from 60+ years ago being maintained and flown today as history pieces. They are not being pushed anywhere like they were in WW2, and most of these warbirds aren't in war-time condition and aren't allowed to run at full power because the engines are precious and rare.

Now if you had a WW2 pilot talking about his combat in WW2, .... well it would still be anecdotal but it would be a heckuva lot closer to relevant.

I find myself in complete agreement with Krusty.... 

[Oldman731]

I find myself in complete agreement with Krusty.... 

Me too.

- oldman

[MachFly]

I agree with Krusty.





Just the point out the guy in the video (don't know the name) agreed that Spit5 and Spit9 are pretty much the same airplanes.  

[Noir]

Just the point out the guy in the video (don't know the name) agreed that Spit5 and Spit9 are pretty much the same airplanes.  

well if you rule the engine out it is pretty much true

[Karnak]

well if you rule the engine out it is pretty much true

That would be ruling out what is probably one of the two or three most important determining factors in a fighter's performance.  Kinda silly to do that.

[Ardy123]

Just the point out the guy in the video (don't know the name) agreed that Spit5 and Spit9 are pretty much the same airplanes.  

Your taking it out of context in an attempt to discredit him... His point was to say that a spit 5 and a spit 9 are very similar unlike say a spit 5 and a spit 14 or spit 16. So yes, a spit 5 is very similar but has a smaller engine than the spit 9 but unlike the spit 16, which has clipped wings, etc...

[Karnak]

Your taking it out of context in an attempt to discredit him... His point was to say that a spit 5 and a spit 9 are very similar unlike say a spit 5 and a spit 14 or spit 16. So yes, a spit 5 is very similar but has a smaller engine than the spit 9 but unlike the spit 16, which has clipped wings, etc...

You contradicted yourself.  The Spitfire Mk XVI IS a Spitfire Mk IX.  Some Vs had clipped wings too.

[STEELE]

Spit IX and Spit XVI both have merlin 61?   

You contradicted yourself.  The Spitfire Mk XVI IS a Spitfire Mk IX.  Some Vs had clipped wings too.

We all know that 109g outturns 51, What I found most interesting was the last minute or two where Skip says no way can earlier Spits outturn earlier 109's, also that the 109 retains E much better in turns than the spit.
Also mentioned was the fact that the later Spits had high wingloading and couldnt turn nearly as well (K4 vs 109F comes to mind)

[Karnak]

Spit IX and Spit XVI both have merlin 61?   

Spitfire Mk IXs had a Merlin 61 or Merlin 63 or, most commonly, Merlin 66 or Merlin 70.  Spitfire Mk XVI had a Merlin 266, which is an American built Merlin 66.

We all know that 109g outturns 51, What I found most interesting was the last minute or two where Skip says no way can earlier Spits outturn earlier 109's, also that the 109 retains E much better in turns than the spit.

Which is completely undone by the fact that he has never flown a Spitfire, which he says in the clip.

Also mentioned was the fact that the later Spits had high wingloading and couldnt turn nearly as well (K4 vs 109F comes to mind)

And?  The Spitfires in AH follow that same trend, as do the Bf109s for the same reason.

[Ardy123]

You contradicted yourself.  The Spitfire Mk XVI IS a Spitfire Mk IX.  Some Vs had clipped wings too.

Huh?
Spit 9s don't have clipped wings (at least in AH), where a spit 16 does..

[Karnak]

Huh?
Spit 9s don't have clipped wings (at least in AH), where a spit 16 does..

The guy in the video will not have been talking about AH Spitfires, thus I treated your comment as a comment about real Spitfires.

The Spitfire Mk XVI in AH is actually a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe.  Full throttle height is the same as the Mk VIII's which is where it should be for a Merlin 66, and about 1000ft below where it should be for the Merlin 266 of a Spitfire Mk XVI.  In reality the Spitfire Mk XVI is merely a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe with an American built engine.  Other than full throttle height the engines are the same and produce the same power.

According to Guppy changing the wing tips on a Spitfire took about 30 minutes work at an airfield.