Author Topic: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)  (Read 20485 times)

Offline TwinBoom

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2960
      • 39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2011, 08:36:22 PM »
Just assume we want performance numbers accurate just like you do. And we have changed things in the past when something comes to light that we havn't seen.

HiTech

I can attest to this they added 600lbs to my Girl the 38G

Dam you Mudr ..............Dam you :furious

lol jk
TBs Sounds 
39th FS "Cobra In The Clouds"NOSEART

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2011, 09:19:06 PM »
I took this too mean you were saying we changed performance for playability sake, if you meant something different then I apologize for jumping on ya.
 
HiTech
hell no, i know better...perhaps i should have stated something along the lines of..."a few minor items not associated with the flight models".

is the weight of the 190a8 still in question?
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline USRanger

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10325
      • BoP Home
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 10:15:10 PM »
I don't know HT, I think the new Firefly might be overmodeled.  I have no documentation to back that claim up though. :uhoh





Axis vs Allies Staff Member
☩ JG11 Sonderstaffel ☩
Flying 'Black[Death] 10' ☩JG11☩

Only the Proud, Only the Strong Ne Desit Virtus

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2011, 10:34:19 PM »
Before that patch the 190a5 was actually a pretty agile bird - I definitely had no qualms mixing it up with 109s or F4Us.

After that patch the 190s lost about 40% or so off their turn radius

As a long time pilot of the 190 from all the way back early on in AH1 and enjoying the A5 quite often in the many years since I started playing this game, I have to say you're wrong here. 190s actually gained manuverability because the snap-stall would happen any time you banked your wings below 250mph before the airflow recode. After that you could actually get down near to stall speed and benefit from knife fighting. It allowed the 190 to actually manuver. I used to mix it up from inferior E positions against faster planes and still come out the victor in the A5. Nice plane.

It didn't happen at all as you describe, IMO.

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2011, 10:35:50 PM »
is the weight of the 190a8 still in question?

It's not in question. It's just wrong.  :noid







 :bolt:




EDIT: I'm not digging at HTC. I guess they're busy and it's on a massive to-do list somewhere.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 10:37:29 PM by Krusty »

Offline gyrene81

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11629
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2011, 10:47:06 PM »
that is what i was wondering krusty.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2011, 09:38:37 AM »
As a long time pilot of the 190 from all the way back early on in AH1 and enjoying the A5 quite often in the many years since I started playing this game, I have to say you're wrong here. 190s actually gained manuverability because the snap-stall would happen any time you banked your wings below 250mph before the airflow recode. After that you could actually get down near to stall speed and benefit from knife fighting. It allowed the 190 to actually manuver. I used to mix it up from inferior E positions against faster planes and still come out the victor in the A5. Nice plane.

It didn't happen at all as you describe, IMO.

Oh it absolutely happened. Widewing actually compared the turning circles pre and post patch and there was a HUGE difference. Most of the stink was made with regards to the P-51 though, which was also drastically impacted for the worse. The P-51 would absolutely tear up any of the P-47s in a knife fight before that patch, and after it the P-51 was easy meat for a P-47, or anything else bar a 190.

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2011, 09:39:37 AM »
As a long time pilot of the 190 from all the way back early on in AH1 and enjoying the A5 quite often in the many years since I started playing this game, I have to say you're wrong here. 190s actually gained manuverability because the snap-stall would happen any time you banked your wings below 250mph before the airflow recode. After that you could actually get down near to stall speed and benefit from knife fighting. It allowed the 190 to actually manuver. I used to mix it up from inferior E positions against faster planes and still come out the victor in the A5. Nice plane.

It didn't happen at all as you describe, IMO.

Honest to goodness my phone said it posted nothing, not 4...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 10:05:54 AM by Urchin »

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2011, 09:45:47 AM »
Triple post. First time ever.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 10:05:28 AM by Urchin »

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2011, 09:46:47 AM »
Guess I cant delete it.  Damn you auto-correct?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 10:05:12 AM by Urchin »

Offline STEELE

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2011, 01:55:12 PM »
Oh it absolutely happened. Widewing actually compared the turning circles pre and post patch and there was a HUGE difference. Most of the stink was made with regards to the P-51 though, which was also drastically impacted for the worse. The P-51 would absolutely tear up any of the P-47s in a knife fight before that patch, and after it the P-51 was easy meat for a P-47, or anything else bar a 190.

Widewing we need you and your report!  :cheers:
My bet is IF the turning radius was nerfed, it was based on flight testing reports made by US or UK with a rough running or misadjusted-aileron trim tab-captured 190F thats been mistaken for an A model (NOT saying that is why it was nerfed, one can only
speculate till we get a reason from the higher-ups, and thats only if the turn radius if found to have changed per Widewing's studies)
The 190 would stall like ours do if  The aileron trim tabs were not adjusted correctly on the ground. When properly adjusted, the aileron would "catch" the stall, and the little 190 would turn as tight, if not tighter than an La5 or Yak
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 02:03:45 PM by STEELE »
The Kanonenvogel had 6 rounds per pod, this is not even close to being open for debate.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2011, 02:17:31 PM »
STEELE,

The change in question wasn't a nerf to the Fw190 per se, it was a global flight model change that affected all aircraft to one degree or another.  IIRC the Bf109s turned better after that patch than they did before whereas the Fw190s and P-51 turned worse.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2011, 07:45:39 PM »
The funny thing is that I can find references to that thread, but not the thread itself. Widewing says in one thread that he has documented his concerns "here" with "here" being a link to another thread - but that thread won't load.

Perhaps there is a cached version of it or something.

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2011, 07:59:39 PM »
Can you post those links anyway?  You can extract the thread ID from all previous forum software versions' link format, that I've seen.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20385
Re: FW190 vs. BF109: Turn Radius (2011)
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2011, 09:47:53 PM »
I can attest to this they added 600lbs to my Girl the 38G

Dam you Mudr ..............Dam you :furious

lol jk

Ahh those were the days.  The 38G was even more of a beast in a turn fight :)
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters