Learning curves ?

[Voodoo38]

I would like to get some opinions on learning curves in this game as far as fighters.  One of the things I find most interesting is some guys play for a couple months and are extremely good.  Then on the other hand theres guys that play for 5 to 6 years and suck in a fighter like myself.  Are you guys like "Grizz" or "SHawk" that are really good, doing a lot of reading on ACM or do you just have a knack for it or what is it ?  Is it due to good controllers and computer equipment ?  Did you grow up around this stuff or know someone that was a fighter jock ?  Guess im askin cause im pretty dang good in a gv or bomber but I cant really hold a good fight in a fighter.  I plan on returning to the game soon but have made a promise to myself I wont be back until I know everything there is to know about ACM.  At one time I got so frustrated that I wouldnt even up a plane unless it was a bomber.  Nothing fun about flying 10 minutes to get your butt shot down by someone like Grizz that I did everything in my power to evade.  I wont say I suck but after 5 years I dont feel like im where I should be.  Any helpful opinions or ideas or anything would be greatly appreciated.  I'm also reading a book right now by Bob Shaw called Fighter Combat Tactics and Manuevering.  Have any of you heard of it ?  Has it helped any ?  Thanks to all !   

[Shane]

You can read all you want, but it will take actual experience to apply it.  When you come back I suggest you use .join (ask first) with someone you know is good... a few flights and you might see things start to click where you can start the process on your own.

[AAJagerX]

You can read all the books in the world, understand ACM like a pro, have great gear, and an aggressive mindset...  It truly comes down to who you fly against.  I learned more in one dueling tournament (3 weeks or so before I got knocked out) than I did in the first two years I flew in the MAs.  Fly against people that kick your butt on a constant basis, and do it over...  and over... and over....  Eventually you'll find that it takes them a few seconds longer to kill ya.

EDIT:  Wasn't it Bob Shaw that had a bit of an issue while flying with HiTech in his RV?

[VonMessa]

Eyes outside the cockpit.

ALWAYS!

[Latrobe]

As stated before, you'll get better with experience. The best advice I ever got was to fight someone better than you and learn how they keep killing you, how they fly their plane, and eventually you will get the hang of it.

Before you know it you'll be watching the enemy plane, know exactly what his flight path will be, and how to maneuver yourself into a firing position.

[VonMessa]

As stated before, you'll get better with experience. The best advice I ever got was to fight someone better than you and learn how they keep killing you, how they fly their plane, and eventually you will get the hang of it.

Before you know it you'll be watching the enemy plane, know exactly what his flight path will be, and how to maneuver yourself into a firing position.

^^^^^^
This and...

Once you do saddle up on someone, always assume someone is doing the same to you.

[The Fugitive]

You said you were good in GVs. Why? Because you spent a lot of time in them I'll bet. Now think about this, there are a limited number of moves to learn and remember in GVs. That number may be 50 or 100, but when fighting in fighters there are THOUSANDS of moves to learn and remember.

The top sticks spend hours on hours of time flying fighters to learn as many of those moves as possible. Had you not spent any time in GVs and buffs you'd be one of the better stick now.

[Shuffler]

Stick Time

Fight anyone and everyone

Film your fights and review them

Never give up

[Vudu15]

Hang with it I'm just starting to get out of the everyones killin me stage but its taken time and getting lucky.
Pick one aircraft and learn it, always be lookin around because it WILL mean the difference between advantage ina fight or goin down ridin silk.
Find a good stick on your side who you can observe and fly with. ask questions.

[bcadoo]

Stick Time

Fight anyone and everyone

Film your fights and review them

Never give up

^^^THIS

Analyze your films.  Watch the energy levels (altitude and airspeed).  Note when the fight changes....do you start with advantage and lose it?  The best fights are ones that you start out at a disadvantage and come out on top.  Most importantly: note the mistakes you are making and change what you are doing.

The best pilots I see fly with 'relaxed aggression'  they don't always go for the throat immediately.  They know the strengths and weaknesses of their aircraft as well as their opponents and fly to their strength.  Finally...they are good to great shots....they don't need you in the pipper very long to kill you.

These are just a few things you can work on.

[MachFly]

I would like to get some opinions on learning curves in this game as far as fighters.  One of the things I find most interesting is some guys play for a couple months and are extremely good.  Then on the other hand theres guys that play for 5 to 6 years and suck in a fighter like myself.  Are you guys like "Grizz" or "SHawk" that are really good, doing a lot of reading on ACM or do you just have a knack for it or what is it ?  Is it due to good controllers and computer equipment ?  Did you grow up around this stuff or know someone that was a fighter jock ?  Guess im askin cause im pretty dang good in a gv or bomber but I cant really hold a good fight in a fighter.  I plan on returning to the game soon but have made a promise to myself I wont be back until I know everything there is to know about ACM.  At one time I got so frustrated that I wouldnt even up a plane unless it was a bomber.  Nothing fun about flying 10 minutes to get your butt shot down by someone like Grizz that I did everything in my power to evade.  I wont say I suck but after 5 years I dont feel like im where I should be.  Any helpful opinions or ideas or anything would be greatly appreciated.  I'm also reading a book right now by Bob Shaw called Fighter Combat Tactics and Manuevering.  Have any of you heard of it ?  Has it helped any ?  Thanks to all !  

Learn as much as you possibly can from other pilots & analyse each flight one of your flights (recording flights helps a lot). I recommend you read the book "No Guts No Glory" by General Blesse, buy every episode of dogfights and watch each episode two times or more, make sure you understand each maneuver. Take a lesson in a real airplane (one should be enough). Try to spend at least 3 hours a week in AH, and do not take breaks that last more than two days. Practice your maneuvers offline and fly with someone (by someone I mean someone who is not a BnZmer and has a K/D of 3+) as a wingman. If you do this you should be good in about 6 month (don't expect to be the best, it will take a lot more time).
Pick one airplane and stick to it, learn every detail of it.

"There's no such thing as a natural-born pilot"
Chuck Yeager

Good Luck  

[whiteman]

I learned a ton in the AVA years ago, was some really good sticks in there that i learned a lot from.

[Soulyss]

I'm sure there is some natural ability at play, some people tend to be better at certain things than others.  I also believe that there's always room for improvement, natural ability may shorten the time table somewhat but no one around here got good w/out working at it.  Understanding theory and reading about the concepts at play is a good start but skills like judging another planes E state, and developing a fine feel for the controls is something that just has to be accomplished through repetition and practice. 

I read Shaw's book years ago and it gave me a couple things to think about but I feel at the time I didn't understand the "how" and "why" of the things he was saying so I don't think it helped me very much, if I read it now it may click a little more.

Try not to compare yourself to other players, which is easier to say than to do but everyone progresses at their own pace.  Measure your progress against yourself and it will make for a more pleasant and less stressful experience.

[Ack-Ack]

There are two kinds of fighter pilots in this game.  Those that take the time to learn ACM/tactics and take the time to gain experience and learn from their mistakes to improve themselves. 

Then there is the other pilot, the one with the desire for instant gratification that can't be bothered to take the time to learn anything beyond rudimentary ACM and tactics in favor of learning the "trick de jour" above all else.  Sure, these guys might get good so that in a few months after starting to play, they'll have their names show up in the chat buffer with XXX amount of kills being landed and all the accolades that brings forth.  The problem with this kind of player is that they spend so much time learning a trick or two that when faced with a fight that does not fit nicely into their "comfort zone", they lack the necessary ACM and tactical experience to think beyond their established moves and cannot properly react to the changing situation in the fight.

In the long run, the player that took the time to actually learn ACM and tactics will in the end triumph over the one that is playing for instant gratification.  The player will also have a much more rich playing experience and will also more likely stay for the long run instead of getting burned out once their "trick" no longer works.

ack-ack

[Oldman731]

I'm sure there is some natural ability at play, some people tend to be better at certain things than others.  I also believe that there's always room for improvement, natural ability may shorten the time table somewhat but no one around here got good w/out working at it.  Understanding theory and reading about the concepts at play is a good start but skills like judging another planes E state, and developing a fine feel for the controls is something that just has to be accomplished through repetition and practice. 

All true.  And some people really do have a better sense of timing and motion than others, which pays off in this game.

The worrisome thing about the original post was the notion that the player didn't want to re-enter the game until he knew everything there was to know about ACM.  It won't happen.  Even people like Batfink and Shane get better as they gain more experience and think more about their fights.

- oldman