Pacific Thunder mid tour stats

[Shifty]

Aircraft   Kills    Losses

A6M2      8         14
A6M2 TOP GUN Jbecks-3 kills

A6M5      139     84
A6M5 TOP GUN DanielTS- 25 kills

KI-61     111         80
KI-61 TOP GUN Shane -41 Kills

P-38G       76          86
P-38G TOP GUN FJames33- 21 kills

P-40E       39      70
P-40E TOP GUN C4159- 6 Kills

P-47D11    79      79
P-47D11 TOP GUN Shane-48 kills

It seems the A6M5 is running away with the kills a little ahead of the Ki-61 ATM. By the time this setup runs again we'll have the A6M3 in it's place it will be interesting to see what difference that makes.

[Karnak]

Interesting that the A6M5 is such an upgrade over the A6M2.  Also interesting how badly it is mauling things which should be superior to it like the P-47D-11 and P-38G.

[Oldman731]

Interesting that the A6M5 is such an upgrade over the A6M2.  Also interesting how badly it is mauling things which should be superior to it like the P-47D-11 and P-38G.

An illustration of the difference between the arena and the real world.  Rather than sticking to coordinated b&z attacks from an initial altitude advantage (as in the real world!) we're mostly starting co-alt (or less), with no wingman, and dogfighting.  With equal pilots (also unlike the real world at this historical moment) the A6M5 is nearly always going to win under those conditions, and probably would have in the real world, too.

Last week, with the Spit 8 v. the G14 and A8, was a challenge for the Axis.  This week is a challenge for the Allies.  If you accept that from the outset, and treat it as an opportunity to get better in your plane under difficult circumstances, it's enjoyable.  Shane and I (P-47 and P-40E, respectively) got clobbered repeatedly last night by Shuffler & Co. in their Zekes, but I believe we all enjoyed ourselves.

- oldman

[Karnak]

Do you think the lack of visual data is hurting the American aircraft in this setting and the German aircraft in the last?  Given the ranges they need to start setting up their attacks, on my screen aircraft would be unidentifiable, nor would I be able to read their orientation until I was well committed.  It seems to me that A6Ms and Spitfires (Hurricanes even better) would handle the shortened visibility better than aircraft used for boom and zoom tactics due to their ability to react and fight in closer proximity.

[Nr_RaVeN]

 ......KITE......

[Oldman731]

Do you think the lack of visual data is hurting the American aircraft in this setting and the German aircraft in the last?  Given the ranges they need to start setting up their attacks, on my screen aircraft would be unidentifiable, nor would I be able to read their orientation until I was well committed.  It seems to me that A6Ms and Spitfires (Hurricanes even better) would handle the shortened visibility better than aircraft used for boom and zoom tactics due to their ability to react and fight in closer proximity.

Just a matter of getting used to no icons, you use different visual clues.  The b&z planes do fine under ordinary circumstances; I think they'd do fine in this setup if people wanted to fly them that way.

There is one ill effect of no icons in this particular setup, which I don't think anyone could have anticipated.  The generic A6M5 camouflage blends amazingly well into this particular terrain.  I am developing - very painfully - even better skills at picking them out of the ground clutter.

- oldman

[Shifty]

Do you think the lack of visual data is hurting the American aircraft in this setting and the German aircraft in the last?  Given the ranges they need to start setting up their attacks, on my screen aircraft would be unidentifiable, nor would I be able to read their orientation until I was well committed.  It seems to me that A6Ms and Spitfires (Hurricanes even better) would handle the shortened visibility better than aircraft used for boom and zoom tactics due to their ability to react and fight in closer proximity.

Actually once you have the guy spotted the BnZ type attack is deadly. Many times the guy you're attacking doesn't see you and you can easily be missed if he's not being extremely vigilant.
Many times all you'll hear is another airplane engine then you wake up in the hanger. If I hear another airplane engine and have no visual I'm usually screwed 99% of the time. Again as in the Main Arena we're not fighting at historical altitudes most of the combat is happening 5K or below playing into the more maneuverable aircraft's hands. Guys have come in with BnZ attacks before and worn people out.
It's just a matter of how the crowd is playing the setup IMO.

[Krusty]

[EDIT: replied to Oldman as Shifty was posting]

May be... But Karnak is right in that the real world allows you to tell what way a plane is facing and moving at much greater ranges. Here it's all or nothing until you're already comitted and can do nothing about it.

You try the same setups right after these, but with standard vision (standard 6.0 icons) and you'll have a different outcome, I'd wager. Different planes would rule the arena.

[Shifty]

Krusty I'm no real world fighter pilot, however during my years in the USAF I was very fortunate to get the chance to ride as a backseater in an F-16 during mock air to air fighting and twice in the right seat of A-37s. I'm not poo pooing on what you're saying I am saying that while pulling Gs watching your altitude and air speed and trying not to kill yourself, your opponent's aircraft is much harder to see  track and attack than most people think. Visually analyzing a hard maneuvering airplane from the ground and analyzing a hard maneuvering airplane in another hard maneuvering airplane is very difficult. If it wasn't we'd all be fighter pilots. While I was an A-10 crew chief our pilots would regularly put black tape over their rank insignia when doing air to air training. Things like metallic Captain's bars could reflect light making a flash on the canopy and cause the pilot to mistake it for the sun reflecting off his opponents canopy. Of course these were Hog pilots and they needed all the help they could get in air to air stuff.    Most real fighter pilots will tell you it's the one you don't see that gets you. Not to mention they paint all these aircraft in low visibility schemes for a reason. I agree with you though no enemy icons is probably much more difficult than real life visually, but I'd also say big red icons out to 6k are too simplistic. I know a real world fighter pilot's opinion and there are a couple in the community would be much better to use for this discussion than my limited experiances.

<S>

[Nr_RaVeN]

It extremely simple to tell how the AC is oreanted. There are gobs of visual ques. Direction of dot..is it... descending/assending /closing/extending/ turning/bracketing. along with other info like radar,tracers,communication, as only a few examples
On this map the axis  low against the terrain show up as movement that can be spotted. At further distance there skins turn white so its a dead giveaway its a Zeke especially with a glance at the dar dots and other info  like heading ect.

Its all very intuitive. Its simply a mater of connecting the dots no pun intended..

For someone who isn't used to no icons the adjustment is a simple mater of looking for a different kind of visual data than one might be accustomed to.
It becomes second nature in short order if not immediately with just a littel common sense.

The A6M5 just out climb and turn its that simple. seems more tend to choose it also..

Only way I can get solid kills on axis is I'm allied is coming in from alt on a bounce and staying fast. Kind of like real world tactics. Co alt merge 1v1 the Zeke rules most of the time other than when the extremal talented are flying ailed, or I just stink. I'm not that great anyway with the allied ac in this set up.
.. It has nothing to do with icons on or off.

[gyrene81]

i do have to somewhat agree with krusty and karnak when it comes to determining the orientation of a con when it is seen as a dot...7-800+ yards out and it's difficult to tell which direction the nose is pointing, even with full zoom...it's just the way objects get rendered. maybe if we all had 42 inch monitors like dichotomy, it might be a tad bit easier, but i personally can't even afford to look at one much less buy it.

if you think the zekes are hard to spot low on the deck, the jugs and warhawks are almost as bad...the 38 is probably the easiest to spot...it twinkles in the sunlight 

maybe one day the object rendering will improve to the point where things don't turn into dots at 3000 feet distance...who knows

[Nr_RaVeN]

Its obvious what way the  AC is pointing by how its flying. If its getting closer its coming your way ect. I don't see the problem

[gyrene81]

Its obvious what way the  AC is pointing by how its flying. If its getting closer its coming your way ect. I don't see the problem

     you can't tell right away whether it's flying at you, away from you or parallel to you...it's only after some observation that you realize which direction it's flying.

[Nr_RaVeN]

RGR, but not much observation time is needed to determine whats going on to get into position.
 Especially when combining all the other information available. There is plenty of time.
Heck if a blind bat like me can tell whats going on  anyone can   

[Dichotomy]

i do have to somewhat agree with krusty and karnak when it comes to determining the orientation of a con when it is seen as a dot...7-800+ yards out and it's difficult to tell which direction the nose is pointing, even with full zoom...it's just the way objects get rendered. maybe if we all had 42 inch monitors like dichotomy, it might be a tad bit easier, but i personally can't even afford to look at one much less buy it.

if you think the zekes are hard to spot low on the deck, the jugs and warhawks are almost as bad...the 38 is probably the easiest to spot...it twinkles in the sunlight 

maybe one day the object rendering will improve to the point where things don't turn into dots at 3000 feet distance...who knows

Have you looked at my stats lately?

Better equipment doesn't necessarily equate to better skills.  Shifty and I have talked about this offline at great length.

I'd love to put some of you in this seat and see how much slaughter and pillage you could inflict (a lot I'm betting).  To be honest I'd probably cheerfully give somebody one of these monitors to give me a weekends worth of hands on instruction.

Back on topic.

90% of the time when I take a hard look at the planeset I'm flying against I've got a pretty decent idea of what's coming at me based on the flight profile.  What generally works in the MA's and the FSO's doesn't necessarily translate into success in the AVA.  Unless you're flying with a group. 

I'm horrible in a 1v1 because I have a tendency to dive into a fight and try to turn with any and everybody but I do a fairly decent job of holding my own as a wingman.

But that's me.