Author Topic: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats  (Read 5129 times)

Offline Shane

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2011, 06:42:39 PM »
icons are a toggable feature...

nothing stops an *individual* from opting to turn them off for *their* "immersion."

but noooooo.... has to be forced on everyone, most usually endorsed by those who don't do very well with icons enabled in the first place.

no icons = more of a crutch than icons = on, especially when you have friendly icons enabled and in-flight radar.

that's my "experienced" opinion.

 :aok
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2011, 06:47:41 PM »
icons are a toggable feature...

nothing stops an *individual* from opting to turn them off for *their* "immersion."

but noooooo.... has to be forced on everyone, most usually endorsed by those who don't do very well with icons enabled in the first place.

no icons = more of a crutch than icons = on, especially when you have friendly icons enabled and in-flight radar.

that's my "experienced" opinion.

 :aok
and in my "experienced" opinion, you're wrong...several of us don't need any icons on but if you can figure out a better way to identify the pilot in a friendly i'm all ears. that is very much the only real reason for friendly icons in the ava at this point.
jarhed  
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Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Shane

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2011, 06:58:01 PM »
and in my "experienced" opinion, you're wrong...several of us don't need any icons on but if you can figure out a better way to identify the pilot in a friendly i'm all ears. that is very much the only real reason for friendly icons in the ava at this point.

you have radio, right?  I wonder how they did it in the real war?

why no go full real... no icons whatsoever... no in flight dot dar (in tower, fine, let someone immerse themselves in the ground control role)... turn killshooter off.

didn't think so.

I don't *need* icons enabled myself either, but that's not what my point was... it gives an unfair advantage to friendlies (friendly only icons)

It remains a player-option whether to enable them or not to varying degrees. I understand why "you" don't want icons - for your immersion, right? How does my ability to have icons affect your immersion?

not to mention (or rehash the "word" from HT himself about why we have icons in the first place.)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 07:02:13 PM by Shane »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline gyrene81

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2011, 07:09:27 PM »
i wouldn't mind turning killshooter off and no icons at all...when, i can identify the friendly in the furball by the paint scheme on his airplane...and from more than 3000 feet away (1k from your cockpit).

as it sits the issues you're using to reinforce your argument are the exact reasons for the compromise of having short range friendly icons turned on...and it is a compromise...would you feel better if enemy icons were turned on to 1-1.5k range (3000-4500 feet)? in all seriousness that's about the maximum range that absolute positive identification can be made between a 109 and a spitfire under ideal conditions.
jarhed  
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Offline Chilli

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2011, 07:11:21 PM »
My two cents:

No enemy icon is a different animal.  There is no use  in trying to compare it to anything really.  I enjoy it most, when I am in communication with others.  I enjoy it least when, I am twisting and squirming around and the other guy is just better at staying in my blind spot (  :rolleyes: that would be you Shane).

What I find, is that I am most successful when flying with another pilot who is communicating and we both are working together to either get to the shot or setting up the shot for the other.  This might rub against those that are used to the arena being a sort of dueling contest for historical types.  

I do respect everyone's opinion here.  I totally enjoy the no enemy icons, and it is not because I do better with them off.  It is just the only place where it seems reasonable, and brings into play more than just the ACM aspect of AH2.   Shane, Krusty, and AvA group as a whole have their own perception of what is a fun experience for them (mine is stated above).  With each setup, terrains and plane skins just add another dimension to the fun that is all.  It is no more realistic, than a pilot having a fresh new plane everytime he rolls down the runway. One that he is going to hold the throttle wide open, for mostly his entire flight.  

Offline captain1ma

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2011, 09:16:29 PM »

Offline CAP1

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2011, 09:17:35 PM »
Do you think the lack of visual data is hurting the American aircraft in this setting and the German aircraft in the last?  Given the ranges they need to start setting up their attacks, on my screen aircraft would be unidentifiable, nor would I be able to read their orientation until I was well committed.  It seems to me that A6Ms and Spitfires (Hurricanes even better) would handle the shortened visibility better than aircraft used for boom and zoom tactics due to their ability to react and fight in closer proximity.

no....it has more to do with the fact that seeing as this is  game, most of us don't tend to fly our cartoon aircraft as they were designed to be flown, as opposed to the rl pilots, who either flew their aircraft as they were designed, or they didn't live to fly their next mission.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2011, 09:20:45 PM »
quick, someone toss raven a twinkie!!! he's going through sugar withdrawals

here raven...look at this for a while

(Image removed from quote.)

best post in this thread.  :aok
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2011, 09:21:21 PM »

I have not been a real-world fighter pilot like Puma and 1Duke1, but in general aviation aircraft the technique is the same as described here.  Icons don't really tell you anything more than rate of closure (or separation), certainly not heading or altitude changes.

- oldman

in other words...icons are crutches?
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2011, 09:23:59 PM »
icons are a toggable feature...

nothing stops an *individual* from opting to turn them off for *their* "immersion."

but noooooo.... has to be forced on everyone, most usually endorsed by those who don't do very well with icons enabled in the first place.

no icons = more of a crutch than icons = on, especially when you have friendly icons enabled and in-flight radar.

that's my "experienced" opinion.

 :aok

ya know? i hear from everyone that you're a pretty cool guy. i heard it first, from someone i VERY highly respect. yet everything i see of you in the forums, and in the arena, you're pretty much a love muffin.
 so which is the real you? nice guy, or love muffin?

 icons are NOT being forced on everyone. if you don't want to fly without them, you've got at least FOUR other arenas to fly in where they are on. go there, or stop your whining about them here.  :bhead :bhead
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline CAP1

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2011, 09:25:05 PM »
you have radio, right?  I wonder how they did it in the real war?

why no go full real... no icons whatsoever... no in flight dot dar (in tower, fine, let someone immerse themselves in the ground control role)... turn killshooter off.

didn't think so.

I don't *need* icons enabled myself either, but that's not what my point was... it gives an unfair advantage to friendlies (friendly only icons)

It remains a player-option whether to enable them or not to varying degrees. I understand why "you" don't want icons - for your immersion, right? How does my ability to have icons affect your immersion?

not to mention (or rehash the "word" from HT himself about why we have icons in the first place.)

how is it that it gives an unfair advantage to friendlies again?
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline Shane

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2011, 09:51:44 PM »
how is it that it gives an unfair advantage to friendlies again?

do i really need to spell it out?

ok i will since you're not seeing (heh) the obvious...

youre cruising along you see two dots one green one red in your in-flight radar very close together you acquire visual on those two dots you go tearing in as you hit friendly icon range you can figure out that oh its your ally that is in trouble being pursued and with minimal effort due to the visual cues you get from that friendly icon you can easily set up for the pick err save and your ally can easily set it up for you as he knows exactly who and where you are in relation to himself on the other hand you if your ally is in pursuit you can also use that visual info to determine whether you might be needed to run down the con or if theyre twisting and turning its easier tio come tearing in and clear their 12 errr help take out the badguy before more come in now expand this to a mini furball yes both sides benefit or suffer but you cant deny that having friendly icons in that environment is a bonus to the friendlies do i need to post some screenies where i ask you to spot the plane tell me what it is and how far out it is i think HT himself has already weighed in on the overall concept of limitations imposed by current technology vs mark 1 eyeballs

now let me ask.. is punctuation a crutch?  or are they visual cues, needed for the written word as opposed to the spoken, in making communication more effective for that modality? suppose i only chose to use a limited set of punctuation. i.e., only used capital letters between sentences?  ever see the effects of a wild or missing comma or apostrophe?  :aok

I could (and will) more easily demonstrate the point with a simple question:

For those of you who prefer the "immersion" of no-icons, why should you care if I have *my* icons enabled while you don't - how is this messing with *your* immersion?

and for the record my "immersion" are the historical matchups (not nccessarily structured under event-style) and to a lesser extent, the cool maps.

<edit> as for the cool guy / love muffin thing... was there a point to this ad hominuim? should I sic moot on you? but to answer, the question, I am very reflective in that what you give is what you get. you will not see me out of the blue just go off on someone in game (and almost never on the BBS.)  i will call people on their in-game behavior, especially when i see the often overtly recognizable hypocrisy between what's being said and what's being done and at which point, you'll see me jump right into and play *that* game, too. i never claimed to be perfect (see sig  :aok )...  or always take the high road - I generally try to, until... the ugly monster of hypocrisy raises it's ugleee haid,  then i can ho, gang, pick and vulch with best of them.  :banana:


« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 10:03:58 PM by Shane »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Shane

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2011, 10:42:22 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Why is it a dead horse? Are you speaking for yourself or as an AvA staffer? IIRC not every staffer shares this sentiment and appear to be open to consideration for change... or am i wrong in that perception and there's *no* way this horse will ever run again?

Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Puma44

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2011, 12:27:28 AM »
It appears this thread has run off the road, into the bar ditch, and run over the horse more than once.   :D
 :salute
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 12:35:10 AM by Puma44 »



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Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Pacific Thunder mid tour stats
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2011, 06:44:53 AM »
I'm just going to throw out my point of view on this pointless debate.  I prefer the arena just the way it is.  The advantages and disadvantages work both ways.  The type of play has been set by a group of volunteers that care a great deal for the health of the arena.  Some things about it I don't particularly care for others I actively embrace.  And some things that are evolving I really don't care for.  But it happens in all areas of life.  You can improvise and move on or continually rage against something that you can not personally control.  Pointless use of resources in my opinion.

But you know what? This is where I choose to play.  I like most of the people and enjoy the historical set ups.

Other than that the best thing I think I can do is shut up and fly. 

This debate has raged ad nauseum for a while now.  I think it would be in everybody s best interests to put it to bed and move on to other topics.  Nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future as far as I can tell. 
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