As a 190 driver...

[RAM]

 Much has been told and said about uberplanes..."I want the P47M" "I want the Ta152"...etc. I think great of those planes and want to see them, but IMO we need another plane: Fw190A-4
 
 Every AH's Focke-Wuld driver will say you that the Fw190A-8 is too heavy to a Fighter vs fighter engagement. And we are right, the A8 was a bomber killer, heavily armored and with heavy weapons also. The A-4 was a pure figher, and outclimbed, outturned, outaccelerated the 190A-8 at any altitude. It was more lightly armored and armed (2 7.8mm MGs,2 MG151 20mm and 2 MG FF 20mm), but I'll alway trade that protection and firepower for those advantages-Anyway I always choose the 2MGs and 2cannons option-.

 Also the A-4 was a widely used aircraft, very feared by the english Spitfires,that in 1942-44 were outclassed by the A-4 to A-6 Fw series.In a A-8 you must be a VERY good driver to win against a co-E Spitfire IX. Fw190A-4s eated Spits for breakfast.

 So, please take in the Fw190A-4. You can take the 109F-4, in the future the SpitV...so please model the Anton-4. Thks for your time.

[juzz]

I think the rumour was for the A-5, since it has the same longer nose/fuselage as the A-8.

I reckon having the less powerful A-2 somewhere down the line would be nice too.

Actually now I think about it how about these...

A-2 - less powerful BMW 801C-2 engine.
A-4 - more powerful BMW 801D-2 engine.
A-6 - outer cannon are upgraded to MG151/20, or optional MK108.

Sound good?  

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 02-17-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Yes, we need another variant of the FW, I'm always outmatched in the A-8 except:
A) If I have at least 2k alt advantage, or
B) It's a buff

 



------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"In training, upon being told it was time to
solo, the instructor said, “You tried to kill
me enough times, now try it with a check pilot.”"

[llbm_MOL]

Well at least the A-8 can run away from everything in the arena but a stang, and you can run from a stang long enough to drag him to his death

LLBM OUT!!!!!!!

[SIFTER]

     I agree RAM. I rarely flew the A-8 in WB because it was such a pig, compared to the A-4. I long to maneuver co-alt with the spit dweebs.And it is faster than the A-8 to boot.I'll give up the faster firing cannon and 13mm just to get the swirl and twirl nimbleness of the A-4. Plus it would be a fun fighter against the C-205, and other light fighters on the deck.Thanks for listening to our opinions PYRO.  

[Ripsnort]

LLBM, that is not true, both George and A8 have the same top speed with wep at 15K and below.  I've checked data and tested it off-line, it's true! (I've also been caught and shot on-line by the George)

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)

"In training, upon being told it was time to
solo, the instructor said, “You tried to kill
me enough times, now try it with a check pilot.”"

[fd ski]

 

Also the A-4 was a widely used aircraft, very feared by the english Spitfires,that in 1942-44 were outclassed by the A-4 to A-6 Fw series.

Someone wants to elighten poor fellow ? Or should i do it ?




------------------


Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[JENG]

Mmmm fd-ski

He's right about the first part of his info.

The FW190a3-a4 did outclass the spit in 1942.
As I recall the first encounter between spits and FW190's was during the Dieppe raid in 1942. The spit was totaly outclassed by the 190. What is important is that during this raid the RAF flew spits mkVa and b.

Against a spit MkVb the 190a4 holds almost all the aces. It climbs better, better top speed, rolls better, dives better, more guns... the only thing the spit Vb has going for him is sustained turnrate and as we all know that's not that important.

Against the spitmkIX it's a totaly different ballgame. The spit IX climbs better, has better sustained turn, keeps E well, has as good an acceleration, and the top speed is close too.

All in all, it all depends on the pilots flying the birds...  

BEE
Nemo impune lacessit

 

[Udie]

I'd like to chime in, in favour of the A4.  Pleas please please please please, can I have an a4.  I'd fly no other plane other than my beloved f4-1D.


 did I say please?  

udie

[RAM]

MMM about Spits and FWs...
The SpitV was outclassed by 109Fs in 1941/42 (its widely accepted that the Messerchmit F was a better plane), the Fw190s opened the gap to a lever unacceptable for the British,who in response introduced the "interim" IX version. The IX brought the fight with the 190A-4s to an EQUAL...the A-6 again outclassed the british plane, being a plane with less wingload than the previous versions.

In dieppe were introduced the Spit IXs and Typhoons.They,and SpitVs were wiped out from the skies by nearly 200 Fw190A-4s. Note that they were 4s not 5s nor 6s.
Until the Griffon series the Spitfire was inferior to german FW190A series. Then was another history, but then whe should look at the 190D not the A isnt it?  .

[juzz]

A-6 lighter? I would think the Fw190A only got heavier with each new model.

The AFDU regarded the Spitfire F.IX and Fw190A-3 as equal. The advantage in speed swings between the two, depending on altitude. The Spitfire is slightly better in climb up to 22k, where it gets markedly better as the Fw190A drops off. The Fw190A has a better zoom climb, acceleration and is faster in a dive. The Fw190A is more manoeuverable except in turning circles.

The first Spitfire - Fw190A encounter was during Circus 101(21/9/41), when returning Polish No 315 Sqn. pilots reported engaging "...unknown enemy aircraft with a radial engine".

As for the Fw190A-8 in AH outrunning everything but the Mustang - I don't think so! The Bf109G-10 is almost as fast as the Mustang(only a few mph slower). At high alt the Spitfire is faster too. At low alt the La-5FN has some serious speed. The Corsair should be faster at high alts.

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 02-17-2000).]

[danish]

*sits back at corner cigaret in mouth, waiting for fd-ski to kick door in gunns ablazing*

And yes: allthough the A8 is better here than the WB its still in a funny way "left behind" the planeset (Funked and Wells came to the conclusion its really the heavier G model AFAIR).Takes goood patience to get in that 25k-home-field-is-same-direction-as-attack position.And defensives are the most limited of all cept the 47 ;=)

I'd prefere the A6 as next Fw.It should be fairly simple as a layout variant of the A8 - but then again what do I know;=) - has the center of gravity moved forward as from the A5 models onward, has lighter wingstructure than A5 and 4x151\20 cannons as basic armament.Forget 108's, and GM1\MW50 - but who cares nobody seems to get them right anyways.And it went production june -43 witch will follow the planeset backwards nicely from the current late war setup.

danish

[Fishu]

I have heard HTC talking about adding Fw190A-5 someday...
I guess that will be our next one..
At least I am more merrier with it, even though it has less ammo and couple poorer cannons (if takes 'em at all)

But, its over 20mph faster and maneuvers better (who needs armour of A-8 then when youre mostly behind  )

[fd ski]

 

The first Spitfire - Fw190A encounter was during Circus 101(21/9/41), when returning Polish No 315 Sqn. pilots reported engaging "...unknown enemy aircraft with a radial engine".

from "The Polish Air Force at War" part 1:

Page 213

"...on 21 September, the wing was involved in a desperate combat with 18 Bf 109s on the way to France, which were joined by several new radial-engined enemy fighters, variously identified by the Polish pilots as Nlochs, Curtiss Hawks or even Macchi C.200s, Four of those were reckoned restroyed, by S/Ldr Piertraszkiewicz ( two ) - whi himeself was shot down and made PoW - F/O Falkowski and P/O Wamdzilak, in addition to five Bf 109s brough down, two "probables" and one damaged for loss of one Polish pilot killed. Polish combat reports created a sensation in Intelligence cicles amd were discussed for many days. It was later realised that the enemy aircraft involved were the new Fw 190s.
 
The second encounter with Fw 190s was reported on 27 September ( during Circus 103 ), with one climced destroyed by Sgt Chidel. Five Bf 109 were also shot down, with further  two "probables" and four damaged. Polish casualties were one pilot and a Spitfire VB"

BTW - all polish squadrons were flying Spit VB at that particular time.
It was outclassed by both 190 and 109F it faced, which once again proves that it is a pilot not machine that matters.

If you are interested in squadron 315 - check this out:

 http://www.raf303.org/northolt/

RAM as for your comments about Dniepre raid - let's use the same logic for Battle of Britain:
Hurricanes shot down more planes then Spits
LW lost 3 times as many planes as RAF.
That means Hurricanes is at least twice as good as 109E ?
Must have been eh ?


------------------


Bartlomiej Rajewski
S/L fd-ski Sq. 303 (Polish) "Kosciuszko" RAF
   www.raf303.org  

[RAM]

I never doubt that the difference is made by the pilot, not the plane...Saburo Sakai survived a dogfight against 14 Hellcats in his lone A6M5.

but an ace with a good weapon is better than one without that. PLease note that the 109E loses in BoB were very few compared with the bombers and Me110s. ALso note that Hurricanes used to attack bombers and Spitfires fighters. The argument you use is invalid because you ignore historical facts. The Hurricane was an AWESOME buff destroyer in 1940. But not so good fighter. To count Hurricane's victories against bombers the same as 109E's victories vs Hurricanes and Spitfires with Ground control vectors, far from home, and tactically slaved (thks for Goering's "wise" order of close escort), is to be unfair.

No doubt RAF had great pilots. but Luftwaffe's Jagdwaffe was until early 1944 the best fighter command in the world.

But returning to the Fw190 matter, it was a better machine than the Spit until 1944. No doubt about that. In good hands a SpitV could beat a 190, but Damnit, that is the pilot not the machine. And you can be sure I like Spits, but also do like 190s and I find them better.

BTW the numbers you give of Fw190 loses in the first engagements were the true ones or the pilots' claims?...there use to be a great difference,isnt it?