Author Topic: A105 Area  (Read 1187 times)

Offline FiLtH

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A105 Area
« on: April 15, 2011, 11:54:17 PM »
   We ran into a huge cloud of escorts and B29s, followed by more huge clouds. Looked really cool!  <S> FBEagle for fighting! Not sure what happened there at end, did you blackout? That P47 near us didnt help ya much there :)

   Was awesome hearing the rolling thunder as they dropped. Went on forever!

 :airplane:--------[ Dont Shoot!]

~AoM~

Offline Reschke

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2011, 12:04:34 AM »
Was a great frame for us tonight! We weren't thrilled with the bomber run but we sucked it up and flew it. Got to be the lead bomber group over Tokyo and made it back with ZERO lots pilots. First time for VF-17 to do that in a while in an FSO frame!

<S> to all that did it tonight! Great job by both sides of the event and the guys that planned and ran it!
Buckshot
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Offline oakranger

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2011, 12:18:37 AM »
   We ran into a huge cloud of escorts and B29s, followed by more huge clouds. Looked really cool!  <S> FBEagle for fighting! Not sure what happened there at end, did you blackout? That P47 near us didnt help ya much there :)

   Was awesome hearing the rolling thunder as they dropped. Went on forever!

 :airplane:--------[ Dont Shoot!]

You are pics!
Oaktree

56th Fighter group

Offline Chapel

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2011, 02:17:31 AM »
Pretty amazing how the same FSO can have completely different experiences....
From the looks of it, and reports flowing in, almost every target was ignored except Tokyo.

We flew for an hour and a half expecting to see B-29's attempting to drop over Nagasaki....
Only to be disappointed. Some squadies reported seeing a half dozen or so F4U's. But they never made it to what we thought was the target.
Is that all that was sent to bomb the Nagasaki factories?
Hiroshima reports were very similar, and I think a couple of the other factories too on the western side.
Did the allies send ALL their available bombers to Tokyo?
Rolling Thunder

Offline lothmog

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 08:07:11 AM »
Pretty amazing how the same FSO can have completely different experiences....
From the looks of it, and reports flowing in, almost every target was ignored except Tokyo.

We flew for an hour and a half expecting to see B-29's attempting to drop over Nagasaki....
Only to be disappointed. Some squadies reported seeing a half dozen or so F4U's. But they never made it to what we thought was the target.
Is that all that was sent to bomb the Nagasaki factories?
Hiroshima reports were very similar, and I think a couple of the other factories too on the western side.
Did the allies send ALL their available bombers to Tokyo?

Well, there were half a dozen F4U's, half a dozen F6F's and a handful of TBM's.  Your own squad spotted the attack package, and we pretty much got wiped out before target (but not before taking some N1K's with us  ;)).

As with every FSO, strike packages are assigned for each target.  Don't get me wrong, I understand the disappointment of not seeing much action (if any) during an event, but it happens sometimes.  Like last night, sometimes the strikes don't get the chance to get to the targets.  Sometimes the side balancing just dosn't allow for large strike packages.

I'm not directing this at you Chapel, but to all of the complaints that typically pop up on Saturday mornings.  FSO's and Scenarios are about the only thing keeping me playing AH these days, but seeing the level of complaints and whines similar to those found in the MA's is putting a sour taste in my mouth.  These events are based around team work, and distributing the necessary forces to get the jobs done.  Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.  Sometimes you'll get overrun with enemies, sometimes you won't see anything if your scouts are good or if the enemy planned better than your side.  We can't all expect to score 5 kills every single frame, and we can't all expect a fair fight.

/rant  

That being said, it was a fun fight SW of Nagasaki last night.  <S> Rolling Thunder for putting up a good fight (and whoever the A6M's who were there as well), and <S> 412th for their valiant efforts  :)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 08:30:42 AM by lothmog »
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Offline Dantoo

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2011, 09:54:08 AM »
I'm not sure if it was supposed to be on but..... that dot dar that came up for a couple of minutes at Tokyo put my eyebrows up through my hairline.  We could already see the cloud of dots in front of us and that was scary enough. 

Just started at the front and shot our way right through to the back.  Great moments that will live in the memory for quite a while. <S>
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline killrDan

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2011, 10:02:36 AM »
The confession of a sinner: I vulched a squaddie on the runway while landing.  We were bored to tears and the sake had run out.  Would the FSO powers that be please adjust the logs accordingly?

Sorry Dieo, I was actually shooting at Jarbo in his chute.

It wasn't just Rolling Thunder, there were several Japanese squads that flew around for 1 1/2 hours with no significant action.  To paraphrase Kilo's post in another thread, 366 pilots and 125, correction 124 total kills indicates this FSO needs a re-think.  The bottom line is it's not a sustainable statistic.  Not a whine, just a fact...   <S>
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Offline daddog

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2011, 10:33:44 AM »
Quote
Pretty amazing how the same FSO can have completely different experiences....
So true! We flew for an hour and never saw anything. I gather some TBM's make an attempt to hit our strat near Nagoya. We never saw them. Well past the 60 mark many B29's came in who had been chewed up some already. Most of us were pretty low on fuel by then.
Noses in the wind since 1997
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Offline Chapel

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2011, 11:36:59 AM »
Anyone from my squad will tell you, I'm not much of a whiner when it comes to FSO. I suck it up and fly the aircraft assigned and put forth battle to the best of my abilities in the ride I have....
That said, I know that it was probably a "credible" strike package at Nagasaki, and probably all the other factories...but it wasn't what we were led to believe. I'm not putting blame on anyone, just pointing out that perhaps we need to rethink the amount of targets and the size of a "credible" force that we allow to hit it.

Our objectives stated "It appears that Americans are targeting all the major industrial cities in Japan with B-29's now!"

Technically all factories were probably targeted by 7-10 aircraft (but not B-29's), and then the balance pointed towards Tokyo. But that doesn't seem very realistic, nor fair to the rest of the pilots at other targets on either side. Either your getting wiped out over 5 targets, with the bulk of the Axis forces just twiddling thumbs after those 7-10 pilots come in and die....Or your overwhelmed over Tokyo and the rest of the Allied pilots just don't have targets to drop on.

Perhaps a credible strike force should include heavy bombers of a certain amount, except in certain circumstances (PTO for example). Or perhaps the credible force number should be bumped to 16-21 aircraft. Not sure, all I know is that in many circumstances over this FSO, a lot of people didn't have a great time, or worse yet, didn't even have a fighting chance because they didn't see anything.
The goal of FSO is to have an awesome evening in a giant, organized battle recreating, or sometimes creating a new scenario. It's a shame when people don't have fun and get frustrated.

That said, please understand that this is intended to move FSO in a direction so that this doesn't occur again. Not a complaint directed at any individual blaming anyone for anything. Just an observation so that we can move in a positive direction.
Rolling Thunder

Offline Nefarious

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2011, 11:58:42 AM »
Figured I would add this from the other thread:

Quote
In Frame 3 the Allies had the number of B-29s upped to 48 and with the terrain update were now able to hit every target in Japan.

Obviously the Allied CIC chose to handle the objectives a different way. In FSO we as the event designers can only do so much and the rest of the job is left to the CIC who design the orders for us Squad COs and pilots.

Had the B-29s attacked every target like I was anticipating some of the attitudes here may be different this morning. I'm sorry you guys a had a crappy time. In hindsight, perhaps I should of dropped the entire USN plane set for frame three.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline SlipKnt

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 02:29:38 PM »
Monday morning quarterbacking is tricky.  I think there isn't an easy answer to this.

Looking back, Tokyo was tough to get to at T plus 60.  From the airspawn, we had a half bag.  Half bag was the only way we were getting home considering we flew about 22 sectors round trip. 

All off line practice flights indicated we would be landing with about 5 to 10 minutes to spare with a few clean up B29s having to land on a CV due to time constraints and some damage. 

Considering the fuel loadout, and time to target on a DIRECT route from the airspawn, I believe Tokyo was the only base we could get to and land on time.  It was a LONNNG flight round trip.

Knowing that we now have B29s at our disposal, I recommend making their trips long.  It makes for difficult planning and coordination.  Maybe adjust airspawns a bit.  The proper airspawns and friendly fields would have made for better planning and B29 distribution.

I agree that it was overkill over Tokyo but I am not complaining!  I was in one of the B29s!  I have had my share of defending with minimal enemy.  I have also been on the receiving end of what we did to Tokyo.  It is hit and miss.  Yet, we still keep coming back. 

I appreciate what everyone else does for FSO from the CM team to the average guy that simply shows up to fly and keep the numbers good for any squad.   

In retrospect, it comes down to the CiC and the CM team.  Is it possible that the CM team could have adjusted the airspawns?  Could we have given additional time for the B29s to get home past T plus 120?  They guys over Tokyo wanted to fly to the West and keep going to the other air strats but time was extremely limited. 

Overall, we had superior bomber squads in the B29s as well as OUTSTANDING fighter sweeps and CAP over target. 

As it was said over Tokyo as the last bombs dropped and egress operations began, "You build it, we will break it".  That was an outstanding sweep and CAP as well as bombers hitting target. 

Regarding another post about the B29s hitting additional targets (in the target area) not assigned.  It happens and for that I am sorry.  A perfect plan usually falls apart the moment the first shot goes down range.  That is true in FSO as well as it is in real combat.  There is no really good answer to that.  Perhaps the CO of that squad should have reached out to the CiC to obtain additional targets so you could have dropped elsewhere.  A second strike so to speak.  Again, communication with the CiC and the CM could have given that squad another shot at hitting something else and I think that a certain few may not have been as frustrated in the end.  My own squad were falling over eachother trying to squeeze into the assigned lanes for our squad.  As a result, I released bombs only to see the buildings go before my iron hit the ground.  Frustrating indeed, but, we all did our part and over all, as Strike Team Orange, we accomplished our mission.   There is always the possibility that several B29s could have goine down leaving some targets left, in that scenario, we would have had to come back and drop over target again.  Our sweep and CAP was so effecient, that didn't happen.  The end result was that everything over Tokyo was destroyed.  I anticipated heavy losses and was pretty sure we would have to come back.  But...   ...it didn't happen. 

So, for what it is worth, monday morning quarterbacking, I think we learned something from B29 tactics for FSO and think we can tweak it a bit now.  This is still a new concept.  But in time, I think it only gets better from here.

Fun FSO for me anyways.

 :cheers:

DCS:
SlipKnoT
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 03:30:16 PM »
Ditto  +1
also   the B-29 spawns needed to be closer to target and secondary targets needed to be available just in case stuff like this happened.
the time it took for the B-29's to get to and home from the target area left them no choice but to hit the targets available,  we landed our planes with 10 minutes to spare!  no time at all for anything other than what was supposed to be hit. yet there were plenty of other targets they could have went to had they had an extra 30 minutes,  moving the air spawns closer would help IMO

That said,,I had a blast last night but did expect many enemy planes that i did not see,  those things happen
Flying since tour 71.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 05:03:49 PM »
Was a great frame for us tonight! We weren't thrilled with the bomber run but we sucked it up and flew it. Got to be the lead bomber group over Tokyo and made it back with ZERO lots pilots. First time for VF-17 to do that in a while in an FSO frame!

<S> to all that did it tonight! Great job by both sides of the event and the guys that planned and ran it!

Errr I got one of your aircraft?

Offline whiteman

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 05:08:15 PM »
Errr I got one of your aircraft?

one drone dead doesn't take a pilot out of the sky.

Offline WWhiskey

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Re: A105 Area
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2011, 07:08:16 PM »
Flying since tour 71.