New halftrack (3 part wish)

[Krusty]

Part 1 of this wish:

We need the Sd Kfz 7.

Here is the Sd Kfz 7/1, the primary version I think we need most:



This is the same gun as on the Wirbl right now, only without the PANZER strength chassis and the hard-to-kill nature. Essentially it's soft-skinned and can be strafed down with MG fire, like an M3 currently.

This same halftrack frame was quite popular, and over 12,000 were made in all differing forms.

Here is the version that had a 37mm gun (same as the Ostwind, but without the panzer chassis):


Here is the troop transport version:


Note that it is towing a 88mm flak gun, for possible future AH inclusion.

Here is the transport version:


The vehicle reportedly runs 50kmh but other than that I don't know the details.


WHY WE NEED IT: Wish part #2: Perk the Wirble. Perk the ostwind. Whatever you perk them, make the wirb 1.5x whatever the perk on the osty is. So if the osty is a mere 5 perks, make the wirb 10 perks cost.

Addition to make it even better: Wish part #3: Add a reload delay. The player doesn't need to do anything! Just like firing a tank gun, you have to wait x seconds. Make it so you fire 20 rounds and have to wait 2 seconds (a ready crew standing right there waiting to reload the magazines, pop out the old, slide in the new, shouldn't take long). [EDIT: These guns had stick-mags like a BAR rifle that had only 20 rounds in them, they had people standing by to change them repeatedly, and only fired 2 guns while the other 2 were being readied under most conditions] This may or may not be implemented into other things such as aircraft later on, but it is especially needed in the wirb and in the proposed Sd Kfz 7/1 with the same quad gun.

The player can keep holding the trigger down if he/she wants, just like in a sherman. They just have to wait for the reload before the next round(s) leaves the barrel.


This would give us another soft-skin vehicle like the M3 that would double as a flak (2 kinds of flak, even!), yet still run supplies and troops. It also might be interesting to see the troops leaving the benches instead of jumping out the back. It also paves the way for the much-wished-for towed mannable 88mm flak position in the future!

[gyrene81]

now that is a useful add on wish... +1

[DemonFox]

I like the new reload system idea +1
I don't like the perked wirb and osti idea -1
I'm impartial about the new half track so +0

[JOACH1M]

+1 to all posted

[waystin2]

+1 to adding the half-tracks (all versions)

-1 to perking Wirbel's or Osties.  Need some reasoning for this idea.

-1 to delayed fire due to magazine changing.  This would affect more than just the Wirbelwind and Ostwind if I am correct.

[IrishOne]

+1   good idear, i likee

[Debrody]

Even if the current flakers dont need to be perked, this car would be an awsome perk farmer.

[Krusty]

+1 to adding the half-tracks (all versions)

-1 to perking Wirbel's or Osties.  Need some reasoning for this idea.

-1 to delayed fire due to magazine changing.  This would affect more than just the Wirbelwind and Ostwind if I am correct.

Waystin, if you have ever flown within 2k of a wirble and been single-ping-killed you'd know. If you've ever tried to strafe one and survive, you'd know. If you've ever tried to even bomb or rocket one and survive you'd know. More often than not you die and he lives. Looking back (I chose the tour before the arena split as an example) the Osty used to get 40,000 kills a month, the M16 used to get 7,000...

Lately the M16 gets barely 500-600 a tour, the osty in the 2000 range, and the Wirbl in the 20,000+ range.

The wirb is by far the most lethal to aircraft and blows away anything that came before it, making them utterly obsolete.

We have the equivelant of a panzer and a T-34 (but for AA platforms), then get the equivelant of a tigr added but no perk price associated with it.

It deserves a perk, especially if we can say "Take this, same gun, just a bit more vulnerable" in the case of adding the Sd Kfz 7/1 and so forth. If a soft-skinned AA platform gets added with just as effective a loadout, the wirb has no excuse NOT to be perked. It's only unperked right now due to lack of other options.

[Lusche]

-1 to delayed fire due to magazine changing.  This would affect more than just the Wirbelwind and Ostwind if I am correct.

I really would like to see it, though it wouldn't affect the Ostie much (slow rate of fire means the loader can keep up with the gun). In the Wirbel, it coul mean a realistic choice for the gunner: Blaze away all four barrel at once and then wait for reloading, or fire continuously by alternating between two pairs of barrels (we already do have that - fire all / fire primary / fire secondary)
And for tanks or ship guns that would mean no instant switching of ammo types anymore 

[Reaper90]

+1 for all points, especially perking the Osti and Wirby. Wirbles were very rare in WWII at best, and I agree compared to the other ones, the wirby is in-game the "Tiger tank" of mobile armoured AA.

Maybe even add one of these with a tiny perk, between the halftrack Krusty posted about and the Wrib (i.e. Sd kfz 7 no perk, Mobilwagen and Osti 2 perks, Wirblewing 3 perks, etc)......

The Mobelwagon

[gyrene81]

oooh...a weapon reload option for gv's and ships...short delays for reload and ammo type switching...excellent idea.

missed that tidbit in the op

[Oddball-CAF]

+1 To all of this.

  As well, it does indeed pave the way for a towed 88 AND perhaps even more fun, towed artillery
of the 15cm and 10.5 cm variety.
  The implementation of the towed artillery would, I think, enhance gameplay in a way that
air, naval, and current ground vehicle usage does not.
  Some tinkering and "special traits" would be required in order to disallow any gamey-ness
in their use. Perhaps a required amount of time to disengage the gun from the tractor;
another 4-7 minutes to set up the guns themselves; time to re-engage the gun
to the tractor to RTB or move to another position, and lastly, a set time that the
gun and the tractor would be -unable to bail-. (I foresee this as quite important as
without it, the artillery would be used to hammer a town or field and then simply
disappear without a trace after guys 'bailed' or "landed them" prior to the
enemy forces having a chance at destroying them.
  Perhaps make these towed weapons dependent upon two players working in unison;
one as driver, one as gun commander.
  A "spotter" of some sort would be required in most cases, this could be a jeep, M3, M8,
or a plane. Said plane could "click" on the clipboard field map, and artillery "tuned" to
a particular channel would then see a marker of some sort on their map. Guns
on that frequency would then do the same, "clicking" on that marker to fire into that
area.
  Artillery could be used for such things as where massed armor might be (spawn points as an example),
attacking towns and fields, and perhaps even strategic targets such as cities and factories.
  They would be "protected" by various types of anti-aircraft vehicles as well as perhaps towed 88s,
and fighters flying in the general area and overhead.
  Seems to me like wonderful fun and a great way to extend the options availlable in the
"ground war" aspect of the game.

Regards, Odd  

[waystin2]

Waystin, if you have ever flown within 2k of a wirble and been single-ping-killed you'd know. If you've ever tried to strafe one and survive, you'd know. If you've ever tried to even bomb or rocket one and survive you'd know. More often than not you die and he lives. Looking back (I chose the tour before the arena split as an example) the Osty used to get 40,000 kills a month, the M16 used to get 7,000...

Lately the M16 gets barely 500-600 a tour, the osty in the 2000 range, and the Wirbl in the 20,000+ range.

The wirb is by far the most lethal to aircraft and blows away anything that came before it, making them utterly obsolete.

We have the equivelant of a panzer and a T-34 (but for AA platforms), then get the equivelant of a tigr added but no perk price associated with it.

It deserves a perk, especially if we can say "Take this, same gun, just a bit more vulnerable" in the case of adding the Sd Kfz 7/1 and so forth. If a soft-skinned AA platform gets added with just as effective a loadout, the wirb has no excuse NOT to be perked. It's only unperked right now due to lack of other options.

First let me say, I am one of those terrifying Wirbelwind officianados.  With that said, I know how to kill them and kill with them.   I also know know when to stay away from them.  The effective range on the Wirbelwind is about 1.7k (Lusche correct me if need be).  It is impossible to get meaningful hits beyond 1.5k.  Any WW driver worth their salt will hold fire intil you are inside of what I like to call the "can't escape" umbrella.  I would put that range at about 1.0k or so. 

I bomb them regularly, but rarely try to turret them with rockets or guns.  This is simply suicidal or last ditch option to disable their turret.  The two best options for dealing with a Wirbel is a bomb or a tank.  Anything else is asking for trouble. 

Adding a new GV is not a good reason for creating a perk for an existing vehicle, nor is the declining use of other AA platforms.  It is based on it's impact on gameplay.  If a perk comes then it would and should be based on what it is doing in game.

 

Way

[Krusty]

Ask lusche about the impact it has had on gameplay... It has taken over 90% of all AA kills from the Ostwind and M16. It's as if you introduced the Spit16 and then 9 out of every 10 planes in the game you ran across were spit16s. Even the CHOG got perked with "only" 20% use... This is by far the most lethal AA platform we have.

The Sd Kfz 7 is still needed. Were we to get the 7/1 setup there is no reason to logically suggest in any way that the Wirb (as modeled now) should go unperked, hence I added that as a follow-on wish.

It all presupposes adding this other vehicle. What would be interesting is having the same chassis with both 37mm and 4x20mm options for the gun.


That brings me to another question: Why aren't the Wirb and Osty on the same vehicle? Why are they separate instead of 2 gun options on the same hangar option?

[Reaper90]

Adding a new GV is not a good reason for creating a perk for an existing vehicle, nor is the declining use of other AA platforms.  It is based on it's impact on gameplay.  If a perk comes then it would and should be based on what it is doing in game.

Isn't that pretty much the opposite though of how the perk system is implemented? As I understood it, the perks are based on the potential and ability/performance of a vehicle/airplane, not on what it is actually doing in-game....

I'd never thing the Wirby would ever be worthy of costing something like 5 or more perks, though... bet 2-3 would be about right IMHO.

Hows this.....
Sd Kzf 7/M16 no perk
Mobelwagen/Osti 1 perk
Wirblewind 2 perks

???