Instead of ENY...

[guncrasher]

It all ready does penalize.

lutzmax, go into the hangar.

Look at the clip board.

See the big thing labeled "PERK POINT BONUS"?

HiTech

hey HT perhaps there should be an even lower multiplier all the way down to zero perks.  btw does the multiplier affect score points?  if so perhaps there should also be a multipliers from 100 to zero depending on country numbers.

semp

[LLogann]

I mean I had received points and only had been logged in for an hour or so (both that day and for the tour)   

This is completely tour independent.

[Lusche]

I mean I had received points and only had been logged in for an hour or so (both that day and for the tour)   

That doesn't matter either. You have to be on the winning country for 12 hours, that doesn't mean you have to be online all the time (and also you don't have to be online the moment the war is won)

[LLogann]

So basically what you are saying is that you or I, will always get perks for being on the winning country but a 2 weeker who only has 8 hours logged in won't even though they are on the winning side?   

That doesn't matter either. You have to be on the winning country for 12 hours, that doesn't mean you have to be online all the time (and also you don't have to be online the moment the war is won)

[lutzmax]

Wiley:
Thanks for the response.  The multiplier is subtler than it needs to be IMO.  Subtlety is not a virtue when trying to influence behavior.  I don't fly for points and I only fly for the Knights, so I am perhaps the wrong lab rat to test this hypothesis.  
If players in countries A and C knew that they would get more points killing B's than from killing each other, perhaps they would be more inclined to fight the B's and level the playing field somewhat.  No reference to AW implied by me, BTW.

[Lusche]

So basically what you are saying is that you or I, will always get perks for being on the winning country but a 2 weeker who only has 8 hours logged in won't even though they are on the winning side?   

We will not get always the perks. Only if we had been on this country for at least 12 consecutive hours before the war was won. That's why I almost never get them at all anymore, I switch more than once per day.

[LLogann]

I understand now, thank you sir!   

We will not get always the perks. Only if we had been on this country for at least 12 consecutive hours before the war was won. That's why I almost never get them at all anymore, I switch more than once per day.

NOT TRUE......  Sorry   Same perks are earned for fighting either side.  It's your "bonus" not their "subtractor"

If players in countries A and C knew that they would get more points killing B's than from killing each other, perhaps they would be more inclined to fight the B's and level the playing field somewhat.  No reference to AW implied by me, BTW.

[Wiley]

Subtlety is not a virtue when trying to influence behavior.  I don't fly for points and I only fly for the Knights, so I am perhaps the wrong lab rat to test this hypothesis.  

And maybe I'm not the ideal candidate either, as the first thing I do when I see a number on a screen is try to understand what it means.  I don't know, just seems to me the info's there.  I'm also highly motivated by perks, so that's an influence as well.

I'd be curious to know how many players are also primarily motivated by perks.  There's an awful lot of people I see flying who seem to live in low-ENY rides (bad for perk farming) and I pretty much never see them in a perk plane.

If players in countries A and C knew that they would get more points killing B's than from killing each other, perhaps they would be more inclined to fight the B's and level the playing field somewhat.  No reference to AW implied by me, BTW.

Well, maybe we're talking about 2 different things.  The perk multiplier doesn't have anything to do with which side you're fighting.  Say I'm Rook and our perk multiplier is 1.5.  It doesn't matter whether I shoot down a Bishop or a Knight plane of the same ENY value, I'm going to get the same amount of perks.

I also don't think it'd be a good idea to change that, as it would only encourage the two outnumbered countries to dogpile the largest, which already happens a lot anyways.

That doesn't matter either. You have to be on the winning country for 12 hours, that doesn't mean you have to be online all the time (and also you don't have to be online the moment the war is won)

*head asplodes*

So if I read right, when the war is won, as long as your previous 12 hours of play were for the winning team, you get perks?  So if I had been say, Bish for 12 hours, then switched to Rook for 5, saw Bish was getting close to winning, and went Bish for 3 hours before it was won, I would not get perks for the win?  The only way to get perks for the win is if you've been on that side for your previous 12 hours of gameplay?  So, if I play Bish all the time, and I've got 12 hours of gameplay under my belt, and they win the war, I get perks.  By what you said above, if I'm not on, I still get perks?

Something about that sounds off.

Wiley.

[Lusche]

So if I read right, when the war is won, as long as your previous 12 hours of play were for the winning team, you get perks?  So if I had been say, Bish for 12 hours, then switched to Rook for 5, saw Bish was getting close to winning, and went Bish for 3 hours before it was won, I would not get perks for the win?  The only way to get perks for the win is if you've been on that side for your previous 12 hours of gameplay?  So, if I play Bish all the time, and I've got 12 hours of gameplay under my belt, and they win the war, I get perks.  By what you said above, if I'm not on, I still get perks?

Something about that sounds off.

Wiley.

And what exactly does sound off?

[lutzmax]

Wiley:
You and I may represent two ends of the spectrum of fliers.
In my OP I was trying to get at the idea that killing the uebernumber country gets you more perks.  Like a bounty. I want, in my proposition, ganging-up to occur as a way to deal with the numbers issue.  Some people will gang-up and others will not.  At some point it evens out, theoretically.

[Lusche]

At some point it evens out, theoretically.

But not practically. Most players are not flying for points. They are pretty much team loyal, and fly in that war that is being waged in the MA. Players want to win, and for the majority that means being part of a "winning" team, which for the most parts ends up in capturing enemy bases. Generally, they love to attack much more than to defend, love having superior numbers and hate being outnumbered.
So there is only so much you can do with (non-limiting) incentives. The perk modifier is there, it's very prominently featured in the hangar (you simply can't miss it, unless you completely ignore all those points stuff), it's featured in the gameplay faq/help section (where we -in theory- learned about this game). It just doesn't matter to most players for the reasons mentioned above.
And that's why ENY limit was introduced, as the perk modifiers (giving you up to 5(!) times more perks than standard) hardly had any influence on the gameplay and the behaviour of the majority of players.

[Wiley]

And what exactly does sound off?

The part about not being on and getting perks, I guess.  With different schedules and the way most people seem to rabidly stick with a chesspiece, seems to me there'd be an awful lot of people getting victory perks that they had nothing to do with earning.  It just seems odd, and I guess it's preferable to the instant sideswitchers getting their perks.  Not a big deal, it just struck me as a little strange.  Might also explain Bishops' seemingly more consistent numerical superiority.

Lutz-  At least on this issue.  I'm not a hardcore number cruncher or score potato, I just like to have the perks to be able to take up a jet when the mood strikes me and have enough perks left over if I die that I won't feel too bad.

The thing with two sides ganging one, when it goes badly what most commonly happens is something like this:

Rooks: 100
Bishops: 90
Knights: 50

Numbers pulled purely out of my backside, the point is in this case if both Bishops and Knights pile on Rooks, Rooks are now effectively outnumbered 140-100.  Plus depending on the percentages they may have to deal with ENY on top of being outnumbered.  And yet... few switch sides to even numbers.  It's just the nature of the players it seems.  I don't understand the chesspiece loyalty, but I also don't switch when numbers are whacked because I have squaddies who don't like to switch.

It just seems like no matter what means HTC tries to put in place to get people to balance the sides, or populate two arenas, to the vast majority of the playerbase they are 'a knight/rook/bishop til they die'.  They won't switch, and they just grumble about the ENY and crappy perk multiplier ad nauseum rather than change sides.

Wiley.

[Ack-Ack]

Wiley:
 
If players in countries A and C knew that they would get more points killing B's than from killing each other, perhaps they would be more inclined to fight the B's and level the playing field somewhat.  No reference to AW implied by me, BTW.

Actually, you are pretty close to how part of the scoring system worked in AW.  Player A would get more points if he killed Player B that was ranked higher than Player A (AW had a hidden rank system) and less points if Player B was ranked below Player A.  In addition, Player A would receive less points the more he shot down Player B (regardless of Player B's rank) consecutively.

ack-ack

[hitech]

That doesn't matter either. You have to be on the winning country for 12 hours, that doesn't mean you have to be online all the time (and also you don't have to be online the moment the war is won)

Lusche the 12 hours will be back tomorrow. The 12 hours was tied to the country change time which used to be 12 hours., current the change time is set to 1 hour, so you need to be in country 1 hour. I added a new variable so it will be back to 12 hours tomorrow.

HiTech

[Lusche]

Lusche the 12 hours will be back tomorrow. The 12 hours was tied to the country change time which used to be 12 hours., current the change time is set to 1 hour, so you need to be in country 1 hour. I added a new variable so it will be back to 12 hours tomorrow.

HiTech

So much for the reliability of the official game help/faq pages...