Wishlist - Variety of mid/late war Aircraft

[Krusty]

Yak3: My mistake. Thanks

Firefly: I couldn't remember any specific combat this thing ever had. I had to search, and not much came up. Apparently it's claim to fame was post-war ASW. Not much talk about anything it did in WW2. I could be wrong but at cursory glance that's what it looks like.

B7A Grace: I'm pretty sure about this one. They saw little action. The were only ordered into production in 1944, and only 80 or so were built before (so the story goes) an earthquake hit and took out the production lines. They were not resumed. They were also limited to land based runways as the only CVs capable of allowing the long take-off runs required were at the bottom of the ocean. A torpedo bomber isn't of much use when it's land-based. From these fields they saw little service in the war.

The stats on it are impressive, there is no doubt. Its impact on the war was almost nonexistent, though. Fills no planeset gaps, solves no problems. It's one of those frivolous uber-plane-wishes. While it has the criteria required for inclusion into AH it doesn't "fit" IMO.

[Ack-Ack]

Curtiss SB2C Helldiver - carrier capable
Lauded as one of the worst planes in US Naval history

Only the earlier versions, the SB2C-3 and -4 models rectified the problems with the earlier versions but the later Helldiver versions couldn't shake the reputation garnered by the older versions.

ack-ack

[LLogann]

Curtis Wright has a long history of crappy first run models, it's a company thing I think.  

Only the earlier versions, the SB2C-3 and -4 models rectified the problems with the earlier versions but the later Helldiver versions couldn't shake the reputation garnered by the older versions.

ack-ack

[Krusty]

Only the earlier versions, the SB2C-3 and -4 models rectified the problems with the earlier versions but the later Helldiver versions couldn't shake the reputation garnered by the older versions.

ack-ack

Perhaps. To that I would counter the plane at its worst only saw combat as early as Nov 1943. At this time it was really atrocious. Those updated versions came much later.

To clip from wiki (it's summed up so well)

"The litany of faults that the Helldiver bore included the fact that it was underpowered, had a shorter range than the SBD, was equipped with an unreliable electrical system and was often poorly manufactured. The Curtis-Electric propeller and the complex hydraulic system had frequent maintenance problems.[16] One of the faults remaining with the aircraft all of its operational life would be poor longitudinal stability from a fuselage that was too short, to fit aircraft carrier elevators.[7] The Helldiver's aileron response was also poor and handling suffered greatly under 90 knots airspeed, since the speed of approach to land on a carrier was supposed to be 85 knots this proved problematic.[7] The 800 changes demanded by the Navy, and to make the aircraft able to take on a combat role resulted in a 42% weight increase explaining much of the problem."

Note: the 800 refers to changes the Navy required of the unsatisfactory prototype before placing an order for production.

Even though later models of the SB2C (the -3 and -4) improved the power situation, still... look at the timeline?

The TBF Avenger was already doing the exact same job for almost a year and a half before the SB2C saw action. The Brits promptly turned it down after testing it, citing its appalling handling. The Aussies tried it then dumped it back on us. The Army didn't even want it. They dropped them on the Marines as a trainer.

Sometimes I think the only reason the USN put up with the SB2C was because they paid for it in the first place, and then doggedly (stubbornly) wanted to get their money's worth, regardless of results  

Even the updated SB2Cs IMO are like the P-40Q... Too little, too late, already being done and done better by designs that are already in service.

The only reason folks want it in game, IMO, is so they can HO with 2x 20mm  

Otherwise, similar speed, similar range, similar payload to a TBF, but with worse handling, less defensive guns, no rockets.

[Debrody]

Re-2000 or MÁVAG Héja (falcon), an 1940-'41 bird, as fast as the brewster, but had pretty bad stability problems (heck, the governors son, István Horthy died in one in '42 due to a crash during takeoff).
Still, would be fun and a +1
an re 2000

and the hungarian license copy, the Héja

here is a photo

[Krusty]

Oh, also as a follow up to the B7A Grace, I just now recall a point I made long ago. There were only 2 Kokutai that had this plane, and they were stationed with other bombers at Yokosuka, on the Japanese homeland.

So short range bomber attack craft, at the end of the war, stationed on the homeland... There would not have been much action that wasn't kamikaze oriented, most likely. They wouldn't have had the range to do much else from Japan.

[alpini13]

+1 great post, the  sagittario/archer is the RE-2005  no the re2000.  wonderful plane,lets start with that one

[Butcher]

Oh, also as a follow up to the B7A Grace, I just now recall a point I made long ago. There were only 2 Kokutai that had this plane, and they were stationed with other bombers at Yokosuka, on the Japanese homeland.

So short range bomber attack craft, at the end of the war, stationed on the homeland... There would not have been much action that wasn't kamikaze oriented, most likely. They wouldn't have had the range to do much else from Japan.

Would you rather have the B7a grace or something like the Boulton Paul Defiant? Why not the Paul Defiant, it flew in world war 2 during the Battle of Britain. Oh yeah, no forward firing guns and a rear turret with 4x303's that are useless. Perhaps down the road when we run out of mid war aircraft to add in the game, we can go back to pre/early war, but for example the B7a Grace did serve during world war 2 same for the SB2C Helldiver. We did just follow up an FSO over Japan and both aircraft's would of been used, I can see the B7a getting a ton more flights over the TBM/Dauntless based on the 350mph and twin 20mm guns.

For Practical matters, it wouldn't be high on the list to add to Aces High, I would put both at the bottom of the list due to the demand for other aircraft, never the less its still an operational aircraft same for the P61 Black Widow. Sure it was mainly a night fighter or light bomber however you want to put it.

My Vote goes to either Italian Aircraft the Reggiane Re.2005 and Fiat G.55, to fill the need for a Italian/Hungarian Aircraft, or possibly the IAR 80 for Romanian Aircraft. However with the vast amount of "Axis aircraft" available, I don't see the IAR 80 a high choice compared to Yak-3.

True only a few dozen were built, however we do have the Ta-152 which I know has to of seen less combat then B7a or Re.2005.

More I think about it I'd say its a tough choice to choose, Re.2005, Fiat G.55, P-61 and Yak-3 make my list to add to the game.

[LLogann]

Funniest plane of the war IMHO....  The Germans mistook it for a Hurricane many times and because of that the Defiant was able to have early success.   After they figured out what it was it was head ons all day long, or the good ole FromUnda attack.     

Would you rather have the B7a grace or something like the Boulton Paul Defiant? Why not the Paul Defiant, it flew in world war 2 during the Battle of Britain. Oh yeah, no forward firing guns and a rear turret with 4x303's that are useless. Perhaps down the road when we run out of mid war aircraft to add in the game, we can go back to pre/early war, but for example the B7a Grace did serve during world war 2 same for the SB2C Helldiver. We did just follow up an FSO over Japan and both aircraft's would of been used, I can see the B7a getting a ton more flights over the TBM/Dauntless based on the 350mph and twin 20mm guns.

For Practical matters, it wouldn't be high on the list to add to Aces High, I would put both at the bottom of the list due to the demand for other aircraft, never the less its still an operational aircraft same for the P61 Black Widow. Sure it was mainly a night fighter or light bomber however you want to put it.

My Vote goes to either Italian Aircraft the Reggiane Re.2005 and Fiat G.55, to fill the need for a Italian/Hungarian Aircraft, or possibly the IAR 80 for Romanian Aircraft. However with the vast amount of "Axis aircraft" available, I don't see the IAR 80 a high choice compared to Yak-3.

True only a few dozen were built, however we do have the Ta-152 which I know has to of seen less combat then B7a or Re.2005.

More I think about it I'd say its a tough choice to choose, Re.2005, Fiat G.55, P-61 and Yak-3 make my list to add to the game.