109 E

[STEELE]

Here is one of many quotes about the 109 E's rate of roll:
 inside cockpit of a Bf 109E Here is a detailed view of the cockpit area from slightly below. The mannequin is dressed up in the equipment of Luftwaffe fighter pilot. Though cramped, the 109E had superior climb and acceleration compared to other fighter planes of the era 1936 -1941. It also had a superior roll rate, which allowed it to get away from enemy fighters. The Spitfire could outturn it, but not out roll it.

 

[SmokinLoon]

Here is one of many quotes about the 109 E's rate of roll:
 inside cockpit of a Bf 109E Here is a detailed view of the cockpit area from slightly below. The mannequin is dressed up in the equipment of Luftwaffe fighter pilot. Though cramped, the 109E had superior climb and acceleration compared to other fighter planes of the era 1936 -1941. It also had a superior roll rate, which allowed it to get away from enemy fighters. The Spitfire could outturn it, but not out roll it.

 

Ok.  What is the source?  Why did you post it here?  Do you believe there is a discrepancy in the current roll rate of the 109E-4? 

If you have not tried the 109E-4's roll rate vs a Spitfire Mk I... I highly suggest you do.  Then report back.   

[STEELE]

Oops, this is what I originally wanted to post:  
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html
RAE testing of the Emil vs Spit, scroll down to the Roll Rate section, theres a graph
Between 200-250 mph the Spit takes twice as long to bank 45 degrees!
1 second for the 109, 2 seconds for the Spit   

[Ack-Ack]

Here is one of many quotes about the 109 E's rate of roll:
 inside cockpit of a Bf 109E Here is a detailed view of the cockpit area from slightly below. The mannequin is dressed up in the equipment of Luftwaffe fighter pilot. Though cramped, the 109E had superior climb and acceleration compared to other fighter planes of the era 1936 -1941. It also had a superior roll rate, which allowed it to get away from enemy fighters. The Spitfire could outturn it, but not out roll it.

 

don't tell me you're starting to buy Schlowy4's assertion that the Bf 109E's flight model is busted because he claims the Bf 109E rolls slower than a B-17?

ack-ack

[STEELE]

Nah, was just playing around in DA vs a Spit1, did some more tests just now, the 109E seems fairly close to the graph, the Spit seems to take 2 seconds to bank 90 degrees (instead of 45 degrees, like the RAE chart shows)

[oakranger]

don't tell me you're starting to buy Schlowy4's assertion that the Bf 109E's flight model is busted because he claims the Bf 109E rolls slower than a B-17?

ack-ack

LOL,  I remember that one.  For about a hour on 200, that is all the bit@h about. 

[Debrody]

Both planes roll like a dora 
Anyway its interesting, why the spit1 cant roll and why the basically simmilar spit5 can also why the Emil cant roll and why the Fritz with its extended windspan can.

[Guppy35]

The Spit I had fabric covered ailerons.  The Spit V had metal covered.  The metal ailerons were retrofitted to some Spitfire II as well.  The metal ailerons help improved the roll rate.

[Charge]

Emil should be a bit better in roll to F, at least in slow speed. The F was better in design phase due to shorter wingspan and probably better designed ailerons but the rounded wing extensions took the ailerons out of their best effect area so the roll performance was actually slightly reduced compared to E. Individual test reports may have a different view to this, however.

-C+

[Krusty]

I was under the impression that while the F had rounded tips, the span and area was shorter, thus less mass to move around. The rounded wing version (I thought) had better roll rate because of this and other physics effects at play.

'Course I never really looked into it to compare them much.

[RufusLeaking]

Didn't the guns/cannons move from the wing during the change from E's to F's? The F's moved the cannon mass to the centerline.

[Debrody]

Dont the spit16 has 2 cannons and two MGs on the wings, and still can roll like crazy?

[IrishOne]

Dont the spit16 has 2 cannons and two MGs on the wings, and still can roll like crazy?

clipped wings 

[Krusty]

Dont the spit16 has 2 cannons and two MGs on the wings, and still can roll like crazy?

2 totally different craft.

Comparing the 109E and the 109F is more logical, because one was based on the other, and for the most part the wings were very similar.

[Karnak]

Dont the spit16 has 2 cannons and two MGs on the wings, and still can roll like crazy?

Have fun:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/naca868-rollchart.jpg