Collision question.

[grizz441]

I wish search was working. It seems to only give things from ten years ago'

There are two collision messages, SoAndSo has collided with you and the white, You have collided.

If you understand how a collision works, your front end, his front end, ect. then I can skip that part.

If you saw the white message, you hit him. If you saw the orange message, he hit you. If you saw both you each hit each other.

Damage also depends on what part of your or his plane hit what. Prop, tail, cockpit.

It is my belief that many of the "deaths" where a head on collision occurs is due to a HO shot as much, if not more, than the collision itself.

More than likely you only saw the white message and hit something important, like your head, or, when he pulled up, you were far enough ahead on his front end that he just shot you.

edit: collision "discussion"
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,206839.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253487.0.html



wrongway

You mixed it up.  The orange message is "You have collided", white message is "soandso has collided with you"

[Dream Child]

...

He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.

...

Basically, he didn't collide from his point of view. He pulled up and totally missed your plane. Due to internet lag, your computer sees moving objects behind where they really are, as does his, so he didn't make contact on his screen.

[AWwrgwy]

You mixed it up.  The orange message is "You have collided", white message is "soandso has collided with you"

Figures. I had a 50/50 shot.   

I didn't pull the "vert move" from below.

Picture a vulch scenario except that my victim had no intention to land but rather flew at 100 feet across the base at high speed with me closing fast from above, making the gunnery pass, and pulling up slightly to pass 100 feet above him.

He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.

Since my original post states my victim pulling up and putting his canopy into my prop, how did you deduce that I pulled a vert move from below?

Please reference the scenario as posted and refrain from creating a scenario which differs from the one posted to make a point that does not apply.

That said, I my understanding is that, in a tail chase scenario with collision, the person who's plane is in front by even the smallest margin "wins" the collision.

On your front end, your prop hit his canopy. On his front end, you probably ended up right in front of him a 0 range.

You not only took collision damage but quite possibly got shot at point blank range to boot.

Did you just explode and end up in the tower?



wrongway

[The Fugitive]

I didn't pull the "vert move" from below.

Picture a vulch scenario except that my victim had no intention to land but rather flew at 100 feet across the base at high speed with me closing fast from above, making the gunnery pass, and pulling up slightly to pass 100 feet above him.

He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.

Since my original post states my victim pulling up and putting his canopy into my prop, how did you deduce that I pulled a vert move from below?

Please reference the scenario as posted and refrain from creating a scenario which differs from the one posted to make a point that does not apply.

That said, I my understanding is that, in a tail chase scenario with collision, the person who's plane is in front by even the smallest margin "wins" the collision.

Thats the point, with lag, to him you my have been 20 feet away and dipping below him as he went vertical to avoid you.

The person who "wins" the collision is the one who DIDN'T collide

[icepac]

I got the message that he collided with me.

Then I augered in missing parts of my plane.

I understand lag perfectly.....well enough to author a thread on the "anticipatory smoothing code", how to identify what you just saw, and how to exploit lag whether offensively or defensively from most any possible scenario you might find yourself in these arenas.

Regardless of lag, your front end reports to the server your version of reality, compares it to the other person's front end version of reality, and makes a decision based on control inputs and plane position.

It is clear my question has been answered but most were the wrong answer with a couple of correct answers.

[Lusche]

Regardless of lag, your front end reports to the server your version of reality, compares it to the other person's front end version of reality, and makes a decision based on control inputs and plane position.

And this statement will create a lot of incorrect assumptions again.
To clarify: The server plays no role in collisions. He doesn't compare anything, and no decisions are made. The server just relays the data and, of course, records the outcome. All collision determination and damage calculation is done on each player's FE only.
It is determined on my computer only if I am part of a collision, and if yes, which damage I take from it. Same goes for the other player. Nothing will be "compared" in any way.

And if you don't have a collision on your screen, you do not take any damage from it. Any missing parts are a result of enemy bullets striking you.

[warhed]

semp, my brother, you missed my sarcasm 

The only thing wrong with AH Collisions in my opinion is losing things like oil or ailerons from head on collsions or other impossible scenarios.

[icepac]

And this statement will create a lot of incorrect assumptions again.
To clarify: The server plays no role in collisions. He doesn't compare anything, and no decisions are made. The server just relays the data and, of course, records the outcome. All collision determination and damage calculation is done on each player's FE only.
It is determined on my computer only if I am part of a collision, and if yes, which damage I take from it. Same goes for the other player. Nothing will be "compared" in any way.

And if you don't have a collision on your screen, you do not take any damage from it. Any missing parts are a result of enemy bullets striking you.

So....if my front end records a collision and the other person's does not, am I the only one colliding?

Crazy.

[Lusche]

So....if my front end records a collision and the other person's does not, am I the only one colliding?

Exactly.  This is all the collision model is about

(Of course it's also the same the other way around: if there's no collision on your front end, your enemy can collide/ram as much as he likes... only he will get damage from it, not you)

[The Fugitive]

put up the pictures again Lusche   

[Lusche]

I wonder why the Muppet Collision Flowchart hasn't been posted already...

[Karnak]

So....if my front end records a collision and the other person's does not, am I the only one colliding?

Crazy.

Both take damage.  This leads to ramming being a viable tactic and being very hard to avoid as the player on who's FE the collision does not occur is not able to see that the collision is about to happen.
Only the player on who's FE the collision occurred takes damage.  What we have in AH, intentional ramming is very hard and the player who could potentially have had access to the data to avoid it takes the damage.
Neither take damage.  Leads to people flying through other aircraft, guns blazing, lack of concern about collisions being a pretty big distortion of air-to-air tactics.
Only the player on who's FE the collision did not occur takes damage.  Rammer's wet dream as only the player could not have potentially had access to the data about the collision takes damage, rammer gets to ram over and over and over.  Insane and obviously not a good idea.

It cannot be any other way given the limits of the internet.

[guncrasher]

This is bulltoejam.

It is easy as pie to understand unless you willfully resist understanding.

ah the sarcasm font is really needed.  like I said it's been explained many times.  and for the record is not that hard to ram somebody and both take damage.  I do it when I must get rid of an opponent and I have no other choice.

semp

[icepac]

OK...I now understand and am cool with this model but have one more question.

Dove on a 163 landing today and shot his wings off which caused the wingless plane to fall like a stone into me as I dove under banking away.

He got the kill and I got nothing.

He certainly didn't land it wingless but I was wondering how I did not score a kill on a plane I killed?

If what I now think I understand is correct.....then my shooting up bombers causing them to crash in a remote area a few minutes later will not award kills to me if I happen to be on my next sortie when the crash occurs.

And further.....if said bombers auger in near my teammates or the other enemy, Is this person the lucky recipient of a proxy kill even though he likely never saw or engaged the bombers I shot up causing the damage that eventually crashed them?

[AWwrgwy]

OK...I now understand and am cool with this model but have one more question.

Dove on a 163 landing today and shot his wings off which caused the wingless plane to fall like a stone into me as I dove under banking away.

He got the kill and I got nothing.

He certainly didn't land it wingless but I was wondering how I did not score a kill on a plane I killed?

If what I now think I understand is correct.....then my shooting up bombers causing them to crash in a remote area a few minutes later will not award kills to me if I happen to be on my next sortie when the crash occurs.

And further.....if said bombers auger in near my teammates or the other enemy, Is this person the lucky recipient of a proxy kill even though he likely never saw or engaged the bombers I shot up causing the damage that eventually crashed them?

I'm assuming you "died" first when you crashed. Even though he crashed shortly after, you don't get credit for killing him even though you did, except occasionally in gvs where you will whack someone really good, die, up for a new sortie, in a gv or a plane, and get a kill message shortly after you took off because that other guy somehow died.


wrongway