Collision question.

[kvuo75]

OK...I now understand and am cool with this model but have one more question.

Dove on a 163 landing today and shot his wings off which caused the wingless plane to fall like a stone into me as I dove under banking away.

He got the kill and I got nothing.

He certainly didn't land it wingless but I was wondering how I did not score a kill on a plane I killed?

(just guessing) You didn't kill him, you shot his wings off, collided with him, and he rode his wingless hulk down to the end, and you either bailed or died before he did so.

If what I now think I understand is correct.....then my shooting up bombers causing them to crash in a remote area a few minutes later will not award kills to me if I happen to be on my next sortie when the crash occurs.

that is correct. if you are not still on the same sortie, you don't get the kills.  if you want credit, need to stay alive

And further.....if said bombers auger in near my teammates or the other enemy, Is this person the lucky recipient of a proxy kill even though he likely never saw or engaged the bombers I shot up causing the damage that eventually crashed them?

yep. exactly. or if say, you are the first person to attack that set of bombers, hit em all up smoking almost dead barely flying, but you die. and one guy comes in and pings each bomber with 1 round of 30 cal. he will get credit for all 3 when they auger.

[icepac]

Thanks guys.....I know now what I need to adjust.

[guncrasher]

semp, my brother, you missed my sarcasm 

The only thing wrong with AH Collisions in my opinion is losing things like oil or ailerons from head on collsions or other impossible scenarios.

oh I understood it, why do you think I made the reference to women  .

semp

[icepac]

More questions.

Out of over 100 collisions I have been in, I have only survived 2 which means the other guy flies away seemingly undamaged 98% of the time.

Of those two surviving runs, I landed with half a wing while the other guy flies on.

Guy hits me from behind, I die and he flies on.

I hit person from behind, I die and he flies on.

We collide HO, I die and he flies on.

This happens regardless of whether I have been credited with colliding with him or the other way around.

Any idea what would cause this?

[morfiend]

 Bullets!


  He is shooting you as the colision occurs.






   

[icepac]

What kind of bullets does a c47 shoot?

[Acidrain]

Basically, due to unavoidable internet lag and the speeds at which WWII aircraft move, your relative positions can be dozens of yards apart on each Front End.  So, Guy A can see a guy dive behind him, 100 yard back on his FE, while Guy B sees himself fly through Guy A's airplane on Guy B's FE.  Now, Guy B rammed Guy A, but Guy A had no way of telling that he was going to get rammed and thus had no opportunity to avoid the damage, thus only Guy A, on who's FE the collision happened and thus had potential access to the data needed to avoid the collision, takes damage.

Sometimes people respond by saying "Well, then neither should take damage.", but that distorts the air-to-air combat tactics by making it a good idea to fly right through the enemy aircraft, firing from insanely close ranges.  I won't miss that B-17 I am diving on at 500mph when I fly through it, whereas the B-17 gunner sees me dive 50 yards behind him, making his target much harder.

Basic choices are:

Both take damage.  This leads to ramming being a viable tactic and being very hard to avoid as the player on who's FE the collision does not occur is not able to see that the collision is about to happen.
Only the player on who's FE the collision occurred takes damage.  What we have in AH, intentional ramming is very hard and the player who could potentially have had access to the data to avoid it takes the damage.
Neither take damage.  Leads to people flying through other aircraft, guns blazing, lack of concern about collisions being a pretty big distortion of air-to-air tactics.
Only the player on who's FE the collision did not occur takes damage.  Rammer's wet dream as only the player could not have potentially had access to the data about the collision takes damage, rammer gets to ram over and over and over.  Insane and obviously not a good idea.

Why is both take damage not a basic option?

[Karnak]

Why is both take damage not a basic option?

Because if a plane passes 50 yards from you and you don't dodge it as it isn't going to hit you, but then you go down because on his front end he did hit you, it would not be fun.  You never had a chance to dodge as there was never a collision about to happen for you to know to dodge.  Every player is responsible for not colliding on their own front end, being both rewarded and punished by their own success or lack of success in doing so.

[Guppy35]

Grab a new plane.  You aren't really dead.  You go nose to nose and some times it happens.  or if you are slower then you look and the guy coming down to pick you is going to fast, he'll sometimes collide that way too.  Seems to happen to me a lot that way

Sometimes you'll be in a fight with someone you know and both of you try and cut it as close as you can at the merge and it happens too.  I still have yet to really die from it, so I don't worry too much about it.  Most times I just comment to the other guy that we should both turn right the next time.

[SEseph]

Scenerio 1: I am level in bombers, watching TV and fail to notice a 109 diving on my 6 until he is charging straight up my tailpipe. Before I can get into the gun position, his nose hits my tail and I am the one the system said collided with him so I lose my entire tail.. bye bye bomber. The bat hits the ball, but the ball never hits the bat.  

Scenerio 2: Collision on my end is on right side of plane, yet rips left side off. According to what I see, he didn't come close to my left side, heck, according to the film he barely touched my wing tip, but I lost my entire wing while his ultra strong canopy protects him and he continues on the get more kills, minus a piece of gear.  

I've called HTC and had the collision model explained over and over again to me, but things like this just make me yell at my screen. I can't find logic in the theory of, as I said before, ball hits bat, but bat never hits balls. It is not logical to me with things like these even tho I understand the concept.  

[morfiend]

What kind of bullets does a c47 shoot?

 wysiwig bullets.... what you see is what you get.   In every 1V1 there are 4 planes involved not 2! the 2 planes on your computer and the 2 planes on his computer. Just because you see and get a collision message doesnt mean the other player gets one.

  If you take the time to search the forum on collisions you can find pictures from 2 players computers they show considerable difference between what player "A" saw and what player "B" saw.

  So consider this,if HTC made it "fair" and both players crashed to earth,afterall that should happen,would you be upset if you narrowly missed someone but on "his" end "he" collided and you both go down?  Now remeber you could be a 100 yards away or more when this happens do to internet lag.

 Hopefully when the internet works at lightspeed HTC will fix the collision model.




   

[Karnak]

Scenerio 1: I am level in bombers, watching TV and fail to notice a 109 diving on my 6 until he is charging straight up my tailpipe. Before I can get into the gun position, his nose hits my tail and I am the one the system said collided with him so I lose my entire tail.. bye bye bomber. The bat hits the ball, but the ball never hits the bat.  

This is not an automobile collision in which fault needs to be determined.  There is no fault, only location, your Front End, his Front End. It is a simple question of which Front End detects a collision.  If on his Front End he flew under you and on your Front End he flew into you, the collision will only be yours.

Scenerio 2: Collision on my end is on right side of plane, yet rips left side off. According to what I see, he didn't come close to my left side, heck, according to the film he barely touched my wing tip, but I lost my entire wing while his ultra strong canopy protects him and he continues on the get more kills, minus a piece of gear.  

Did you see the collision?  It is likely he shot your left wing off and your right wing brushed him.  The bit about his "ultra strong canopy" is FUD.  He didn't collide with you on his Front End, you collided with him on your Front End.

I've called HTC and had the collision model explained over and over again to me, but things like this just make me yell at my screen. I can't find logic in the theory of, as I said before, ball hits bat, but bat never hits balls. It is not logical to me with things like these even tho I understand the concept.  

It is incredibly simple, but first you need to stop thinking in terms of automobile collisions, stop thinking in terms of who was approaching who.

Hopefully when the internet works at lightspeed HTC will fix the collision model.

Light speed would still be a bit too slow.

[SEseph]

Did you see the collision?  It is likely he shot your left wing off and your right wing brushed him.  The bit about his "ultra strong canopy" is FUD.  He didn't collide with you on his Front End, you collided with him on your Front End.

Yes, I have it on video somewhere.. I think. It was right after they added the auto record. Both of us were bad shots and neither hit the other until the collision.

It is incredibly simple, but first you need to stop thinking in terms of automobile collisions, stop thinking in terms of who was approaching who.

But I have a good lawyer for Auto accidents!

Light speed would still be a bit too slow.

So is it the faster front end, or the slower that typically sees the collision more often? Depending on this I might change how I access the net. Kind of like way back when you could reduce graphics to see the enemy tanks through trees. Those with the slower PC or who used low graphic settings had, in general, an advantage.

[icepac]

My question is why does my plane die every single time and the other plane fly off seemingly undamaged........even when full of 20mm cannon?

Does colliding with a bomber you jumped (no defensive fire) remove the damage you just caused before the collision?

I would understand if this happens even up to 75% of the time but not 98 out of 100 (actually 70 out of 70 last tour).

Many collisions I lose are in GV where the fighter that hit me flies off not even smoking.

I guess it's two questions as to whether I have a connection issue that is causing this and how I can fix it.

[Skuzzy]

You are still not looking at it correctly.

A computer detects the plane it is controlling has intersected with another object and it assigns the appropriate damage to that plane, given the circumstances of the intersection.

Take the above and apply it to the remote player, and so on.

If the other plane does not show it was damaged, then the other computer did not detect that plane intersected with another object. 

Without fail, your plane WILL take damage every time your computer detects your plane has intersected with another object (i.e. you did not avoid the collision). 

Without fail, the other plane WILL take damage every time that computer detects that plane has intersected with another object (i.e. the other player did not avoid the collision).

If you do not wish to take damage from a collision, you simply avoid the collision.  That is how you stop it.  That is the only way to stop it.  When you say everyone else flies away fine, then all you are saying is the other player did a better job of avoiding the collision.

Every computer running the game has its own unique view of the world.  If you took all the computers and froze an instant in time and looked at the position of every plane, there is more than a fair chance none of the planes would be in exactly the same place on any given computer.