Moar skins!

[Dragon Tamer]

I don't mean every single time the map rotates.  What I should have said that every time the map changes, or each map has it's own set of skins.

[gyrene81]

I don't mean every single time the map rotates.  What I should have said that every time the map changes, or each map has it's own set of skins.

so you want htc to add a good 500 megabytes worth of skins to each map file that some people have trouble auto-downloading already...yea, didn't think about that one either did ya?

or are you wanting to limit the number of skins available on each map? doesn't make much sense if you're wanting more skins...

i'm willing to bet you a twinkie to your dollar that if htc allowed all of the historical skins submitted so far, they would take well over 1.5 gigabytes...there is a process htc uses for putting skins in the game for us to use, and it is meticulous...there isn't a 10 man team of people examining the skins and slapping them in the game.

[Motherland]

so you want htc to add a good 500 megabytes worth of skins to each map file that some people have trouble auto-downloading already...yea, didn't think about that one either did ya?

or are you wanting to limit the number of skins available on each map? doesn't make much sense if you're wanting more skins...

i'm willing to bet you a twinkie to your dollar that if htc allowed all of the historical skins submitted so far, they would take well over 1.5 gigabytes...there is a process htc uses for putting skins in the game for us to use, and it is meticulous...there isn't a 10 man team of people examining the skins and slapping them in the game.

I don't think there are very many planes that have more than 15 skins for them, most skinners don't like to put so much work into a skin just to have it not included, so they don't usually make skins for planes that already have 15 skins.

Actually Dragon Tamer's got an interesting idea, it's not so much the hard drive space that makes having a lot of skins trouble (I would think), it's the RAM space. It may work, to have 30, 40 skins whatever per plane, if only certain skins were available on each map, and so you'd have to only load 10, 15 of those skins into your RAM.

As an added bonus, you could have lots of skins covering lots of theaters and time periods for FSO's, and then only allow those skins for each FSO, so you don't ETO Pony skins flying in a PTO FSO, or winter 109 skins flying in a Mediterranean FSO, etc.. Maybe most people would think this is a silly idea, but I think it would be kind of interesting.

I don't know how practical it would be from HTC's end, though.

[Dragon Tamer]

Now you have me confused about what you are confused about...

What I am trying to say is that HTC goes through the same proccess they do now but picking a map for each skin to be featured in.  It could be the same number of skins they have now (15 per map) or even less, it makes little difference to me.  I would just like to see some new skins that people have submited.  Maybe keep the most popular skins featured in each map.

I am well aware of how much memory it takes to save a skin, I am also aware that if you have a specific set of skins featured on each map, you should be able to compress the file and only have it decompressed when that specific map is bing used by the PC running the game.

And yes, I am very tired today, thank you for your concern.

[gyrene81]

I don't think there are very many planes that have more than 15 skins for them, most skinners don't like to put so much work into a skin just to have it not included, so they don't usually make skins for planes that already have 15 skins.

there are a lot of skins sitting in a cue somewhere on skuzzy's desk waiting for review...even for p-47s, p-38s, p-51s.

Actually Dragon Tamer's got an interesting idea, it's not so much the hard drive space that makes having a lot of skins trouble (I would think), it's the RAM space. It may work, to have 30, 40 skins whatever per plane, if only certain skins were available on each map, and so you'd have to only load 10, 15 of those skins into your RAM.

so in the main arenas, what skins would you say should be included on tagma? how about pizza or trinity? and how would you feel if your favorite skin for your favorite ride wasn't available on any of those maps when you do get the chance to fly? you see what i'm getting at? people scream bloody murder over some really stupid stuff now, what do you think would happen when something as simple as a skin isn't available on a map when johnny romper room whinetard wants to use it just because it's not embedded on the current terrain? sure it could simplify things, but then so could nothing but default skins.

let's take a look at the idea...take compello, 3.75 megabyte file size...over 100 aircraft and ground vehicles...and say the average skin size is ~690 kilobytes each...mutiplied by 4?...or 5?...how about 7 skins for each? do the math...you turn a 3.75 megabyte download into something over 100 megabytes with just 2 skins each. and just so no skins are left out and because they are embedded in the terrain file, someone is either going to need to edit the terrain files periodically to change the skins or multiply the number of terrain files so all skins eventually get rotated in...but let's not forget the new skin submissions either.

As an added bonus, you could have lots of skins covering lots of theaters and time periods for FSO's, and then only allow those skins for each FSO, so you don't ETO Pony skins flying in a PTO FSO, or winter 109 skins flying in a Mediterranean FSO, etc.. Maybe most people would think this is a silly idea, but I think it would be kind of interesting.

I don't know how practical it would be from HTC's end, though.

even though it is definitely an interesting idea that has some merit, short story, not practical...had the same discussion in the ava and it turned out even for our small use...not practical.

[Motherland]

there are a lot of skins sitting in a cue somewhere on skuzzy's desk waiting for review...even for p-47s, p-38s, p-51s.

I've got first hand experience with the skin submission process, Gyrene. I know in and out the way it's supposed to work. You kind of have to when you're a skinner, and even more so when you like to make skins for... well, planes that it's popular to make skins, and one's that have filled out. There're a lot of skins for the P51D in particular (I think like 35? I don't remember what it was), but that's not the way it is across the board for planes with 15 skins in game.
I don't have intimate knowledge of all the numbers and that, I can only know what we're told, and occasionally some back channel stuff, but... I know literally about waiting 6,8 months about waiting for my own skins to get in game, not just skins I want to see.

so in the main arenas, what skins would you say should be included on tagma? how about pizza or trinity? and how would you feel if your favorite skin for your favorite ride wasn't available on any of those maps when you do get the chance to fly? you see what i'm getting at? people scream bloody murder over some really stupid stuff now, what do you think would happen when something as simple as a skin isn't available on a map when johnny romper room whinetard wants to use it just because it's not embedded on the current terrain? sure it could simplify things, but then so could nothing but default skins.

My favorite skin maybe already isn't currently available because there's no room for it in the queue.
They could possibly sort the skins with some bias toward Pacific vs. ETO, etc. as per the maps. In the end it could be completely random and it wouldn't matter, there's just a richer variety of skins in the game.

let's take a look at the idea...take compello, 3.75 megabyte file size...over 100 aircraft and ground vehicles...and say the average skin size is ~690 kilobytes each...mutiplied by 4?...or 5?...how about 7 skins for each? do the math...you turn a 3.75 megabyte download into something over 100 megabytes with just 2 skins each. and just so no skins are left out and because they are embedded in the terrain file, someone is either going to need to edit the terrain files periodically to change the skins or multiply the number of terrain files so all skins eventually get rotated in...but let's not forget the new skin submissions either.

You're thinking all wrong.
The skins don't come with the map, the skins are downloaded just as they are now... there's a .txt (like ~10kb) or whatever attached to each map that says 'these skins are allowed to be used on this map', and then only those skins would be loaded into the RAM, having the same effect, size wise, of downloading all of the skins currently does. You just don't load all of the skins into the RAM (this would be unnecessary, you won't see them on the map), so there's not the same issue of loading skins, just the size of the amount of skins (which, in the age of 2TB harddrives, it's not really a big deal for most people... and for those with smaller harddrives, they can just continue not having all of the skins).

even though it is definitely an interesting idea that has some merit, short story, not practical...had the same discussion in the ava and it turned out even for our small use...not practical.

Because? No mechanism even close to this currently exists in the game, I don't see how you could even discuss it for the AvA.

[gyrene81]

The skins don't come with the map, the skins are downloaded just as they are now... there's a .txt (like ~10kb) or whatever attached to each map that says 'these skins are allowed to be used on this map', and then only those skins would be loaded into the RAM, having the same effect, size wise, of downloading all of the skins currently does.

nope, the cm tools do not allow you to determine what skins are available to what aircraft...only weapons and wep. check it out for yourself, you can do it in offline mode...exact same tools the cm's have available.

Because? No mechanism even close to this currently exists in the game, I don't see how you could even discuss it for the AvA.

i was thinking about the default skin, have to embed a skin in the terrain to change it...sorry.

To change a default skin, the new skin has to be put into the terrain at the time of building.  Can't go back later and add it unless the entire terrain is resubmitted to Skuzzy by the terrain's maker.

[Motherland]

nope, the cm tools do not allow you to determine what skins are available to what aircraft...only weapons and wep. check it out for yourself, you can do it in offline mode...exact same tools the cm's have available.

1 verb tense change and my original intent becomes clear...

"The skins don't come with the map, the skins are downloaded just as they are now... there would be a .txt (like ~10kb) or whatever attached to each map that says 'these skins are allowed to be used on this map', and then only those skins would be loaded into the RAM, having the same effect, size wise, of downloading all of the skins currently does."

As in they add a skin filter to the map file, not that there is one currently.

[gyrene81]

1 verb tense change and my original intent becomes clear...

"The skins don't come with the map, the skins are downloaded just as they are now... there would be a .txt (like ~10kb) or whatever attached to each map that says 'these skins are allowed to be used on this map', and then only those skins would be loaded into the RAM, having the same effect, size wise, of downloading all of the skins currently does."

As in they add a skin filter to the map file, not that there is one currently.

ah ok  ok that would be cool, especially for specia events as you said...and all the silly crap i listed as being an obstacle would be a non issue...

hmmm... i still say the whines would be on par with "get rid of the caps" if such a thing was put into the main arenas...never know though