F3 view and the il2

[BnZs]

Ghi was demonstrably more dangerous in an Il2 than he is in a regular fighter. If you don't see the problem with this circumstance or somehow think its not "gamey", heaven help you.

I think the fact that you can no longer up the IL-2 for base deffence when the fighter hangers are down may have been another factor in it's declining usage. I've seen a swarm of them stop what should have been a clean base capture several times. Would have liked to have seen how well they fared in this role without F3.

[BnZs]

I don't much care whether someone is using F3 for SA or not...I buy the "more than one set of eyes" argument. I just don't want them using it for shots that would otherwise be impossible.

Then again, as I've said before, I'd also be comfortable without F3 being in game at all. My "no shooting" stipulation is a just a compromise with those who would not.

This really does nothing as it has been said many times over in previous threads that many folks use F3 merely for SA then switch to cockpit for the actual shot. In planes like the A20 and IL2 the shot can be 1K plus so switching to be able to shoot changes nothing, I would agree with this idea IF there was a delay of say 2-4 seconds before your guns would be active after switching view.


I have conflicting thoughts on F3

#1- I don't think it should have been changed untill something could be done about base hording!

#2- If you're gonna have some "historical standard" for certain planes you should have it for all.

If it is possible "maybe not likely, maybe not succesful" but possible to fly any plane as a "fighter" F3 should be removed for it.


It makes little sense to take a plane with poor visibility and give it better vis than a pony has just because it is hard to see out of


Poor views were a "real" handicap for many planes and should stay that way. If not then please change the 6 view in the P39, P39 is outclassed by most of the plane set so F3 or a good rear view should be added for it  


No matter how you spin  it is the same argument  



JUGgler

[Slash27]

Corrected.

No, it's a bs cheapshot.

[IrishOne]

Corrected.

they still have tailguns, genius.   i didn't ask for the defenses to be stripped from them.   i said use your tailguns to look behind you.  and if a plane had no tailguns, then why should it have a dead6 view of the tail?  it shouldn't.   work on your reading comprehension, i've explained very clearly what i meant several times already.  if you are too stupid to jump in your guns and mount a defense, then i'll shoot your butt down all day long.    what the hell, i'll do it anyways.

[hotard]

Ghi was demonstrably more dangerous in an Il2 than he is in a regular fighter. If you don't see the problem with this circumstance or somehow think its not "gamey", heaven help you.

1st, Ghi is a good pilot in any fighter. But, as some have pointed out, if you try to vulch him in his IL you'll probably be in for a suprize.

2nd, Then your argument should apply to all airplanes, and not just to 1 specific airplane that one specific individual has taken advantage of abilities (views) not available in the prototype, and masterd a technique.  So now the IL 2 is realistic, and any other aircraft with external views enabled remains "gamey"

So the problem I have is that HTC has responded with laser precision to the specific complaints of the "chosen" and not addressd the whole issue. If you don't think that is somehow not "gamey" then heaven help YOU.

[SmokinLoon]

  my 2 pennys

  get rid of "out of plane view"  like we have now. instead make it so that we can set up views from any available gun positions,and lock out the trigger while in these views so that guns/bombs/rockets cannot be fired.
               
                so as an example, the F3 rear view would look like this
                      (Image removed from quote.)

   instead of this 

(Image removed from quote.)

HTC can LEARN from this a wee bit and fix the amount of head room a turret has.  LOL!  Thsat is not much different that the Il-2 BS.  LOL!!!

[Beefcake]

I'm sorry Irish, I was pissed off when I posted yesterday.

My main issue is that fact that a bomber pilot has a lot of things on his plate. When I fly a B17 formation I'm effectively doing the work of 30 men by myself. It is such a pain in the butt to have switch from gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, you get the point, just to check my views. Now I understand your point, but the fact is F3 view is there to represent a crew relaying info to the pilot. Otherwise restricting F3 just creates even more busy work for the pilot which isn't needed.  

Now I admit some attack planes like the Boston, A20, some of the single engine bombers could warrant F3 restriction. However, none of the medium or heavy bombers should be limited, especially given the amount of "eyes" looking around in each formation.

Even then it's my opinion that we're trying to fix a problem that I don't think exists. I really don't see where a Val having F3 view is harming the game. Yes there are some pilots that can fly A20's or even SBD's with scary skills but they are far and few between, most of these planes are just fodder for the masses.

[Beefcake]

HTC can LEARN from this a wee bit and fix the amount of head room a turret has.  LOL!  Thsat is not much different that the Il-2 BS.  LOL!!!

Um...I think Cobia took those pictures from F3 view as an example, not the inside of the turret.

[IrishOne]

I'm sorry Irish, I was pissed off when I posted yesterday.

My main issue is that fact that a bomber pilot has a lot of things on his plate. When I fly a B17 formation I'm effectively doing the work of 30 men by myself. It is such a pain in the butt to have switch from gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, you get the point, just to check my views. Now I understand your point, but the fact is F3 view is there to represent a crew relaying info to the pilot. Otherwise restricting F3 just creates even more busy work for the pilot which isn't needed.  

Now I admit some attack planes like the Boston, A20, some of the single engine bombers could warrant F3 restriction. However, none of the medium or heavy bombers should be limited, especially given the amount of "eyes" looking around in each formation.

Even then it's my opinion that we're trying to fix a problem that I don't think exists. I really don't see where a Val having F3 view is harming the game. Yes there are some pilots that can fly A20's or even SBD's with scary skills but they are far and few between, most of these planes are just fodder for the masses.

I understand being peeved, it happens to me more than it should

I can totally see your point when you put it like that, and I thank you for seeing mine.   

[JUGgler]

I'm sorry Irish, I was pissed off when I posted yesterday.

My main issue is that fact that a bomber pilot has a lot of things on his plate. When I fly a B17 formation I'm effectively doing the work of 30 men by myself. It is such a pain in the butt to have switch from gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, to gun, you get the point, just to check my views. Now I understand your point, but the fact is F3 view is there to represent a crew relaying info to the pilot. Otherwise restricting F3 just creates even more busy work for the pilot which isn't needed.  

Now I admit some attack planes like the Boston, A20, some of the single engine bombers could warrant F3 restriction. However, none of the medium or heavy bombers should be limited, especially given the amount of "eyes" looking around in each formation.

Even then it's my opinion that we're trying to fix a problem that I don't think exists. I really don't see where a Val having F3 view is harming the game. Yes there are some pilots that can fly A20's or even SBD's with scary skills but they are far and few between, most of these planes are just fodder for the masses.

I don't think anyone has suggested to change F3 for the B17, or any plane without (fixed forward firing guns)   



JUGgler

[guncrasher]

b26 has a forward gun and I use it to deack and dog fight after I drop my bombs.  should you want to get rid of f3 on it too? fact is very few people use bombers to dogfight so that big gamey thing is really not that big of a deal.

fighter flying at full speed with 1/2 a wingor with elevators shot off and still turn now that's gamey.

semp

[JUGgler]

b26 has a forward gun and I use it to deack and dog fight after I drop my bombs.  should you want to get rid of f3 on it too? fact is very few people use bombers to dogfight so that big gamey thing is really not that big of a deal.

fighter flying at full speed with 1/2 a wingor with elevators shot off and still turn now that's gamey.

semp

Well since the die has been cast on the IL2, then YES B26, A20, JU88, Boston, D3A, SBD, TBM, B25C, B25H and the JU87. Gamey is Gamey and to saddle 1 plane "il2" with the burden of this change is wrong. Gamey play is possible from all these planes.  I don't think it is so much that F3 is a big deal in the overall picture, it is just that it has a (playstation, xbox) quality to it that doesn't quite fit with many. The rest of the game has obviously stayed very true to history while tweeked for playability. The tweeks for everything else have still managed to keep all the other vehicles' ability in "relation" to one another. Nothing really is way out there from it's traditional "ingame" competitors. F3 turns a few planes into something they never were, never could survive at and never should be and that equals gamey. No matter the circumstances, to take something that has the worst of a quality and "out of hand" change that quality to better than the best of any other planes for that same quality makes no sense, now to enhance it a bit for added playability is acceptable, but it shouldn't be better than anything else when it started out at the worst.


With all that said, I still think it was premature to change it for the il2 as the horde always leaves the BH up hoping for easy cherries and vulches. The il2 is the only reasonable counter to this other than flying a sector or 2 and we all know that takes too long!

I guess with all changes there are consiquences not realized for some time after the change. 1 consiquence is, now that the il2 has been "fixed" there is virtually nothing to take its place for the defenders or the vulchers so you actually have less opportunity to get easy kills off the pavement and that is sad for you and many others  

 



JUGgler

[warhed]

Why do/did the pro-F3ers never bring up the Bf 110? 

[oTRALFZo]

Well since the die has been cast on the IL2, then YES B26, A20, JU88, Boston, D3A, SBD, TBM, B25C, B25H and the JU87. Gamey is Gamey and to saddle 1 plane "il2" with the burden of this change is wrong. Gamey play is possible from all these planes.

JUGgler

Dont think that just F3 view alone makes for gamey play. The fact that the IL2 has significantly much more manueverablity than the others plus the firepower to take you out even sometimes at 1.5k I think is the deciding factor to why JUST the IL2 was the target.( given the defender now has an advantage after evading )

TBM, JU87, B25s etc.. all have F3 but the ONLY advantage that gives you is for evasive maneuvers. True Cobia is just downright deadly in the A20, but I doubt he can get the same results just coming off a capped feild.

G is a good pilot and I have much respect for him. I did find that the "jinky jinx" overshoot move questionable at best as far as gameplay. Although easily spotted, you had pitty for the 5 noobs that would think it was easy kill only to pull up and explode- I would be one of the 5 

Removing F3 from the IL2 has just hampered my view for GV hunting. Not a big deal, just take a little getting used to. Hope players can see the consequences when something gets exploited, now put out a patch that prevents towns from getting flooded by 100,000 troops running and only 1 defender

[The Fugitive]

F3 should only be available in a gunners position for medium and heavy bombers. Pilots NO, lite bombers NO.

I always thought that F3 mode simulated all the eyes you'd have with all those extra crewmen.