Author Topic: La7 vs. Spit16  (Read 1601 times)

Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2011, 06:39:41 PM »
Don't get me wrong, La-7 is a good airplane and I would take it over many other fighters. It's just that the Spitfire has better overall performance.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline STEELE

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2011, 09:46:08 PM »
Don't get me wrong, La-7 is a good airplane and I would take it over many other fighters. It's just that the Spitfire has better overall performance.
Yes, take note of this, new guys. Fly the spit16, leave the La7 in the hangar.   :D
The Kanonenvogel had 6 rounds per pod, this is not even close to being open for debate.

Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 09:49:59 PM »
Yes, take note of this, new guys. Fly the spit16, leave the La7 in the hangar.   :D


:bhead


Why do I get the feeling were going to see twice as many Spit16s tomorrow.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline pervert

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2011, 10:33:30 PM »
Also I'd like to add that the Spitfire is capable of maintaining it's energy in turns a lot better.

But the better a plane turns the more likely a player will turn excessively with it and blow what E they have, I only see a limited amount of MA pilots who can resist the urge to 'put their dot on your dot' in Spit 16s. For this reason the Spit 16 is not a huge threat in the MA to faster rides, or even in most fights.

Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2011, 10:58:25 PM »
But the better a plane turns the more likely a player will turn excessively with it and blow what E they have, I only see a limited amount of MA pilots who can resist the urge to 'put their dot on your dot' in Spit 16s. For this reason the Spit 16 is not a huge threat in the MA to faster rides, or even in most fights.

Agreed. But when comparing planes you can't take the pilot into consideration. If you will do that than you could easily say that Spit16 is the wost plane because noobs fly it.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Debrody

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 03:15:44 AM »
So you get an La7 to turn and bleed off his energy, than accelerate to your climb speed and start climbing. Climb for some time than feel free to BnZ him for as long as you want.
in a spit16 thats pretty much ghey and timid. LOL
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Offline Widewing

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2011, 09:55:51 AM »
My experience, and it is considerable, is that the La-7 turns well enough to be a threat to most fighters in a low-speed maneuvering fight. The problem most people encounter is that they are flying the La-7 too fast to take advantage of it's maneuverability. Another factor is the La-7's outstanding rate of turn. It can get around a slightly bigger circle faster than many better turning fighters can get around their smaller circle. Bighorn and I demonstrated this with me flying an F6F and Bighorn flying the La-7. I could easily turn inside the La-7, but due to the Lavochkin's much higher rate of turn, I could not gain enough to pull lead for a shot. Worse, the La-7 was able to get the nose up enough to gradually gain an altitude advantage, whereupon Bighorn would break from the circle, unload and accelerate away. This allowed the La-7 to extend out enough to reverse into another merge, resetting the fight. Then there is the La-7's significant advantage in WEP duration. This means that I had to use my WEP sparingly. The net result was that neither pilot could get an advantage on the other that was sustainable long enough to count.

That said, the fact remains that the Spit XVI owns the La-7 in every category but speed. Likewise, the Spit VIII is a little slower yet than the XVI down low, but matches it in climb and acceleration. The XVI rolls faster, but the VIII is more stable at high angles of attack. Which means that the VIII will wear down the XVI in a protracted stall-fight. Equal pilots, both the Spit XVI and VIII should triumph over the La-7 in a maneuver fight. Adding to the La-7's woes is the Spitfire's Hizzooka cannons, with far superior ballistics.

Another fighter that will give the La-7 fits is the 109G-2. Clean, they are about equal. Slow, the 109's far better flaps give it the edge. However, the 109 pilot must remember to NEVER attempt to reverse to the right with flaps out at low-speed. The 109 simply will not roll right, even with full right rudder, unless you pull off power to minimize the torque effect. Rolling right takes too much time and the La-7 will quickly gain the advantage. Pulling back power means having to get the nose down to avoid a stall... Another thing you don't want to do. So, keep going left no matter what. Knowing your aircraft and fighting it the way it fights best is always a very important aspect of air to air combat.

If you believe the La-7 is not exceptionally maneuverable, think again. Go to the TA, practice flying it to it's limits. Learn where it's strengths lie and it's weaknesses are. Then, fly to the strengths and avoid the weaknesses.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline WING47

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2011, 11:06:58 AM »
     Based on my experience, the La is an easy fighter to beat in my 51 at high and medium altitudes, however, below that it can be a handfull. The spixteen is almost a garateed run for your money, it is also rediculously good at low alts. In my opinion, every time I have put my P-51 in a fight the spixteen is extreemly hard to keep up with, even when using flaps. If I had to make a choice between the two, I would go with the spitfire. Although they seem simmalar at low altitudes, the La's peformance falls off sharply as you gain altitude.

Offline BnZs

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2011, 12:14:03 PM »
     Based on my experience, the La is an easy fighter to beat in my 51 at high and medium altitudes, however, below that it can be a handfull. The spixteen is almost a garateed run for your money, it is also rediculously good at low alts. In my opinion, every time I have put my P-51 in a fight the spixteen is extreemly hard to keep up with, even when using flaps. If I had to make a choice between the two, I would go with the spitfire. Although they seem simmalar at low altitudes, the La's peformance falls off sharply as you gain altitude.

Rumors to the contrary aside, the La7's performance does not suck even as high as 20K.


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2&gtype=2

Its worth noting that the P-51D is one of the fastest fighters in the game and one of the best alt performers, so we could expect the La to look even better at alt compared to more "average" fighters.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2011, 12:44:40 PM »
in a spit16 thats pretty much ghey and timid. LOL

I never said that it's not  :lol, just explained one of the tactics that shows how Spit16 clearly outperforms the La.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2011, 12:50:27 PM »
Rumors to the contrary aside, the La7's performance does not suck even as high as 20K.

(Image removed from quote.)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2&gtype=2

Its worth noting that the P-51D is one of the fastest fighters in the game and one of the best alt performers, so we could expect the La to look even better at alt compared to more "average" fighters.


They might be fast in a straight line at 20K, but the wings are not made for maneuvering at that altitude and the engine is also tuned for low altitudes. So if you decide to use it's speed at 20K it will take a while to accelerate.
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline JOACH1M

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2011, 05:20:05 PM »
Spits....are very hard to fly aggressively. The tail slips out into a flat stall somewhat like a 152. 109's and La's are very easy to fly aggressively as the stall actually can help you. Basically if die to a spit, your doing something wrong
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Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2011, 05:26:27 PM »
Spits....are very hard to fly aggressively. The tail slips out into a flat stall somewhat like a 152. 109's and La's are very easy to fly aggressively as the stall actually can help you. Basically if die to a spit, your doing something wrong

So since you say they are hard to fly aggressively, does it mean that you believe that everyone flies them peacefully?  :)

I fly Spit14 most of the time, I have no idea what your talking about regarding the tail slipping out, perhaps you can give a better explanation of it. It does sometimes go into a flat spin, but if you know what your doing and have the altitude you can recover from that, and if you know what your doing you probably wont get into that. I also believe if that it's actually the stall limited that puts you into that flat spin as without it never happens (the torque does not allow it).

Ah and I shot you down before...  :devil
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 05:36:34 PM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Debrody

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2011, 05:34:07 PM »
Spits....are very hard to fly aggressively. The tail slips out into a flat stall somewhat like a 152. 109's and La's are very easy to fly aggressively as the stall actually can help you. Basically if die to a spit, your doing something wrong
ya thats why i <censored> in a spit. They are DANG easy to fly well in them, but its real hard to jump into into and beat someone who is used to them. Las, Jugs, 109s, ki84s are much more controllable after the stall than the spits.
Just look Krupnksi, Joachim, Lepape, Sunsfan, MickyD, Bunnies, all freestyle warriors. The post-stall stability can mean a lot sometimes.
Btw i like the spit16 better for two reasons: 1. it gives me more perks    2. the noobs cant run from me  :bhead
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Offline MachFly

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Re: La7 vs. Spit16
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2011, 05:35:35 PM »
Btw i like the spit16 better for two reasons: 1. it gives me more perks    2. the noobs cant run from me  :bhead

 :lol
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s